Appeasement has the expected result

[GRUNHERZ]

Well Nash, I dont have the Canadian government protecting me against bad people from the internet like you do, so I gotta a bit more worried..

[Nash]

Good night.

[Chairboy]

I feel compassion for all those hurt and otherwise affected by terrorist attacks.  This doesn't mean that I ignore the fact that enough people let terrorists scare them into voting for a new government.  Polls indicated that the election would have turned out quite different if the trains had not been bombed.  

It's a simple correlation:  The terrorists managed to change an entire government.  Because of the spanish voters who changed their minds, the entire world is in danger of attracting massive attacks immediately before elections with the intent of changing the outcome.

Once again I implore:  When you change your mind on something, be absolutely certain about WHO is in charge.  Is it you?  Or is some other person setting the drumbeat you march to?

[CyranoAH]

Ok. Terrorist are saying "troops out of Iraq AND Afghanistan or there will be more bombings".

Spanish government promised troops out of Iraq, not out of Afghanistan.

My bet? We'll take our troops out of Iraq, as promised, but those stationed in Afghanistan will stay.

I'm sure some of you will call this "semi-appeasement"...

Daniel

PS: BTW GScholz, you are close in your assessment, I feel less and less compelled to participating in these threads. I keep on posting the same and, judging by the results, I must be in a lot of people's ignore lists.

[Steve]

Chairboy, stop dealing w/ that racist POS, Gscholz.  Anything American is wrong, evil, and bad for the world.  He's a racist waste of human flesh. I'd happily kick his face in if I met him in person.

[GRUNHERZ]

There is hardly unaniminity by spanish posters on this issue, we have seen evidence by both sides from yur country (you and pepe) which supports their view - so cyrano dont be discouraged by the lack of agreement here, its not insensitity its simply disagreent at this point. Some people here share a view closer to your own and others do not.

My selfish inital post election outrage aside, I have felt much sympathy for the 311 victms who could be my family and friends just as as easily as they were perfect strangers an ocean away.. And, ironically enough, it is in their memory and sacrafice that I am taking such a strong and, perhaps to you offensive position, about what I percive in a historical p[erspective to be blatant, dangerous and ultimarely fruitless appeasement.  Because whaterver our disagreemts about the issue, let us be clear - the terrorists will have no such concerns. THey will hail a Spanish pullot from iraq so quickly after the bombings as a tremendous victory, hail their recenbt dead   as holy martyrs and see the favorable Iraq withdrawal outcome as a validation of and encourgement for further use of their tactics.

Appeasement or not, if spain pulls out of iraq it will be a great victory for global islamist terror. Your new PM has an opportunity to deafeat then and deny them this victory by staying commited in Iraq and defying the terrorists demands!

[-tronski-]

Your assumptions that the spanish are appeasers, and that they are now in a frame of mind to negotiate with Al-Qaeda are short sighted, but are I supposed in keeping with the black and white/with us or against us attitudes when it comes to Iraq.

The fact  there was a second attempt to bomb the spanish rail system makes it clear that terrorism has not suddenly been halted in Spain.

Much like our own opposition parties who want the return of our forces from Iraq, the spanish plan to fight terrorism on their own backyard, like they have for decades.
Perhaps the spaniards are realising the war on terror has nothing to do with the war in iraq evidenced by the fact spanish troops will remain in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile the speed in which Spanish authorities tracked down these terrorists should be applauded. Their intelligence services must be excellent and a lesson to other nations.

 Tronsky

[GRUNHERZ]

Tronski the spanish terrorists clearly said the bombing was intended to break spain from the US coalition, and thats exatly what they got. Clear link. So whether you think iraq is terror war related is pointless, the terrorists sure do and they will consider this a great victory - a victory we can yet deny them if Spain decides to stay in Iraq.

You say that the recent high speed train bombing attempt is proof that Spain did not give in to the terrorists and did not appease them...  Are we suppose to think that you also think hitlers invasion of poland is proof that he was not appeased and encouraged by the 1938 munich debacle where france anmd UK gave into his demands for the sudetenland under direct threat of war?

[CyranoAH]

What about Afghanistan Grun? You didn't address that part.

Do we get half the bombings? Half the deaths?

Sorry but it doesn't work that way. The current gov promised our troops out of Iraq, and it will happen, but the troops will stay in Afghanistan, whether the terrorists like it or not.

Daniel

[Hortlund]

This is very simple.

After the first Al Qaeda attack on European soil, the target country declares it will leave Iraq.

All the pacifist a-holes try to spin it naturally. "the war on terror has no relation to Iraq" or "the bombings had no influence on the election" or whatever.

Since all those arguments are irrelevant, I wont go into the right or wrong part of them.

Because they are irrelevant. What is the issue here is:
After the first Al Qaeda attack on European soil, the target country declares it will leave Iraq.

These are the facts. They are clearly visible to everyone.

This means that Italy will be next. All according to al Quaedas own list of targets. Read their fatwas, they spell it out right there. Turkey, Spain, Italy, Prague, UK and US.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by CyranoAH
What about Afghanistan Grun? You didn't address that part.

Do we get half the bombings? Half the deaths?

Sorry but it doesn't work that way. The current gov promised our troops out of Iraq, and it will happen, but the troops will stay in Afghanistan, whether the terrorists like it or not.

Daniel

We all know the socialist party platformn was to get out of Iraq - the voters voted for that party, some say, beacuse of the train bombings.. Thats what terrorists asked for and that they got, they are happy.

We'll see about afghanistan.

[Hortlund]

Originally posted by Hortlund
This is very simple.

After the first Al Qaeda attack on European soil, the target country declares it will leave Iraq.

All the pacifist a-holes try to spin it naturally.

[straffo]

I still don't understand how you can conclude it's a form of appeasement.

FYI the Spain fought terrorist long before the American discovered ALQueida and Iraq.

Look at the timeline :

Before Desert War II ,spanish citizen made huge demonstration against any involvement in this war

Long before the Madrid bombing the socialist said they will get out of Iraq if elected.

The bombing happen.

Aznard and his governement say it's not AlQueida it's ETA
They even make a internal memo stating it ,contradicting Spanish intelligence agency
Foreign Minister Ana Palacio  :

You should use any opportunity to confirm ETA's responsibility for these brutal attacks, thus helping to dissipate any type of doubt that certain interested parties may want to promote"

Interior Minister Angel Acebes :    

"The Interior Minister has confirmed ETA's responsibility," This is confirmed by the explosive and style used, as well as other information that has not yet been made public for obvious reasons"

==> at this point the elections are lost.
Aznar governement shot in his foot.
Spain will get out of Iraq


Now for once a politician is doing what he promised you call that appeasement ?

I call that more a glaring Aznar tactical error.

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by Steve
Chairboy, stop dealing w/ that racist POS, Gscholz.  Anything American is wrong, evil, and bad for the world.  He's a racist waste of human flesh. I'd happily kick his face in if I met him in person.

Gscholz personal attacks get a bit old, but no reason to go psycho on us Steve.

[Maniac]

This doesn't mean that I ignore the fact that enough people let terrorists scare them into voting for a new government.

Talk about being dense

The people of spain decided to change leadership because the current leaders blamed the attack on ETA when they knew it was Al Qaida.

I guess The people of Spain dont like it when the goverment lies to them... And i can fully understand that...

Its only in the USA that this kind of behavior is condoned by their citizens.

Regards.