Author Topic: Appeasement has the expected result  (Read 1760 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2004, 05:39:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
What about Afghanistan Grun? You didn't address that part.

Do we get half the bombings? Half the deaths?

Sorry but it doesn't work that way. The current gov promised our troops out of Iraq, and it will happen, but the troops will stay in Afghanistan, whether the terrorists like it or not.

Daniel


I just noticed the terrorists are now also demanding that Spain leaves Afghanistan too... Not surprising at all considering the succes they see their first attacks brought in pulling Spain out of Iraq coalition.. They just get greedier and will now try to kill more people and commit more terror hoping you will give up in Afghanistan as well.. What will they demand next? How many more people will they kill, how much death will they bring because they have a reason to belive their tactics are succesful?

Oh well, I wish you the best and hope you stay safe.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2004, 05:42:37 AM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Maniac

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2004, 05:44:20 AM »
And how many new fanatics/terrorists have the USA created by invading Irak?

Oh well, I wish you the best and hope you stay safe.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2004, 06:16:12 AM »
You guys are talking in circles.  What I see is a matter of perception instead of intent.  What gsholz is saying is they did not necessarly vote to appease the terrorists and others are sayign they did.  While I agree with Gsholz that it was probably not the reason for the votes of most Spanish voters the perception the change in vote had on the rest of the world, especially the terrorists, is that terrorism can change elections.  There are a few more angles and qualifiers but I think thats what everyone is saying.  Steve, threatening to hurt someone over the free and genuine exchange of ideas does nothing to forward your case and undermines us all.  Please apologize.

Offline Krusher

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Spain blames Iraq but Qaeda aim seen wider
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2004, 09:59:07 AM »
By Claudia Parsons
(Reuters) - April 6 2004 13:56
 
MADRID (Reuters) - Ask the average Spaniard why Madrid was the target of a suspected al Qaeda attack and he will say because Spain sent troops to Iraq, but analysts say it's not that simple and very few countries can feel secure.

"The reason we've got terrorists on our doorstep is the war in Iraq, it's pretty clear," said Toni, a 40-year-old woman attending a demonstration in the suburb where up to six suspects in the Madrid train bombings blew themselves up at the weekend.

The march honouring a policeman killed by the bombers turned into an anti-war protest demanding Spain bring home the 1,300 troops it has sent to Iraq.

Charles Powell of San Pablo-CEU University said Spain's very visible support of the war in Iraq was partly behind the attack.

Outgoing Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar joined George W. Bush and Tony Blair at a summit in the Azores days before the war, and Spain backed Washington strongly at the U.N.

Moreover Powell said a purported al Qaeda text found on the Internet last December contained a sophisticated analysis of the political situation in Spain, where the opposition Socialists had opposed the Iraq war long before March elections.

Professor Fernando Reinares, author of a recent book on terrorism, said in an editorial in El Pais that Spain was a target simply for being a Western country.

Moreover it was a soft target "because of the porous nature of its frontiers and the presence of dense communities of immigrants from north Africa", and Spanish authorities have arrested a number of al Qaeda suspects in recent months.

El Pais said in February the final details of the September 11 attacks on U.S. cities were worked out at an al Qaeda summit in Spain.

WHERE NEXT?

Kevin Rosser, terrorism expert at consultancy Control Risks Group, said the Iraq war was "a convenient excuse".

"Plenty of other countries have been targeted by terrorists whatever their foreign policy," he said. Al Qaeda is linked to attacks from the United States to Indonesia, from Saudi Arabia to Turkey, from Morocco to Kenya.

"We've got to get out of the mode of seeing individual attacks as being linked to individual policies," Rosser said.

The March 11 bombings of four Madrid commuter trains killed 191 people three days before general elections. Aznar's government was thrown out with many voters blaming him for initially insisting Basque separatists were behind the attacks.

The incoming government has pledged to withdraw troops from Iraq unless the U.N. takes more power, but it is under pressure not to be seen to bow to militants' demands.

Powell said Italy now looked vulnerable since Romano Prodi, leader of the opposition centre-left, said he would bring Italian troops back from Iraq if the left was in power.

"That's an open invitation," Powell said. "Also Rome is an obvious target because there's the religious significance."

Portugal, which hosts the Euro 2004 soccer championship in June, was also vulnerable, and it was likely that Spain itself had more independent groups of militants waiting to act.

"They're warming up towards the November elections in the States and trying to create as much havoc as possible between European states and in transatlantic relations," Powell said.

Jonathan Stevenson, senior counter-terrorism fellow at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said Olympic host Greece was another obvious target, while past attacks indicated a pattern of moving up the chain of U.S. allies -- from Saudi Arabia, to Turkey, to Spain, with Britain next.

"It doesn't mean that eliminates countries like France and Germany that opposed the war," Stevenson said. "Al Qaeda, because it's decentralised and has to relinquish initiatives to local affiliates, has to be opportunistic as well as focused."

An "apocalyptic" attack on the United States, he added, was the ultimate goal.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2004, 04:31:59 PM by Krusher »

Offline Thrawn

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2004, 10:01:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by CyranoAH
My bet? We'll take our troops out of Iraq, as promised, but those stationed in Afghanistan will stay.


Not only will the stay.  Spain is doubling the number of soldiers in Afghantistan.


I have mentioned this on this BBS before.  But apparently some of our US friends have chosen to ignore this because then they couldn't lie about Spanish "appeasement".

Offline NUKE

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2004, 10:20:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
He doesn't need to apologize. Anyways, even if he did I've got him on ignore, so what's the point.


why do you advertise the people you have on ignore? What's the point? I never understood why people would even have an ignore list, let alone put the ignored list in their signature.

By the way, I'd suggest you change your sig.

Quote
Ignored Fascists: Martlet, Steve, weaselsan.

Ignored for being an absurd bastard: Grunherz.


Personal attacks are not acceptable here.

Offline Capt. Pork

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2004, 10:25:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz

Chairboy, I dare you to stand in the streets of Madrid and call the Spaniards terrorist appeasers. I wonder where the police would find your body ... and in how many parts.


Because it takes a mob of brave, logical, righteous men to kill and mutilate the body of an individual.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2004, 11:13:38 PM »
Iraq wouldn't be a part of the "War on Terror"ism if we hadn't decided to go invade it based on some ****ty or fabricated intel. The irony of it all, is that we actually made it part of the "War on Terror"ism.

We actually stretched our forces thinner so we couldn't dedicate a larger force to the "War on Terror"ism.
-SW

Offline Steve

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2004, 11:19:50 PM »
Quote
Gscholz personal attacks get a bit old, but no reason to go psycho on us Steve.


Gosh, I guess it's ok for him to have a personal attack  in his sig about me though right?


Fug Gscholz.  As long as he is allowed to spew his anti-American rhetoric, I'm gonna hold to my opinions and state them as I see fit.
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Offline Pongo

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2004, 11:24:12 PM »
Iraq and the UN found out again what happens when you appease an aggressor.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2004, 12:24:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Not only will the stay.  Spain is doubling the number of soldiers in Afghantistan.


I have mentioned this on this BBS before.  But apparently some of our US friends have chosen to ignore this because then they couldn't lie about Spanish "appeasement".


Nobody is ignoring it at all.  In fact I brought it up in the above post.  

You see after the appeasement the terrorist percieved they got on Iraq they are now asking for a DUAL pullout from both Iraq and Afghanistan.  So in a few words, they see they have been rewarded for terror and now are asking for more on the threat of more terror.

Its like how hitler was enouraged by the easy way he got the sudetenland in Munich 38.  And then he thought he could get Poland too...  

Of course the western powers resited at Poland, but then it was too late and we see how that turned out, dont we?

Appeasent just enourages more demands... And this case more terror attacks, in conjuction with demands for a dual pullout from iraq and afghanistan.

So is anybody surprised the Iraq appeasement now brings demands for afghan pullout.

Whether they do or dont stay in afghanistan is pointless, they have now invited more terror by opening hopes of terrorists that they can change policy...

How many more will have to die?

Offline Nash

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2004, 12:27:28 AM »
Wait a sec....

"You see after the appeasement the terrorist percieved they got..."

Backpeddaling? Was it real or "percieved"?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2004, 12:34:49 AM »
I think it was appeasemet, that it was real.  You dont think it was appeasement.

We disagree - so there is not much point  discussing thta any
more or at least thats how I felt whan I wrore that last post.

However there can be no disagrrement that the terrorists will see this as a victory, as appeasemet. Not even the most luny of you left wing guys can make the arguement that the terrorists will take this as victory - they will see that spain has given them a victory. So thats what I'm saying.

Actually its funny yiou even brought it up, it proves just how anal people here are in reading the wording here trying hard, reaching for even the slightest point we can try to turn to our advantage to make a point in our favor or try to be clever...

Offline Nash

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2004, 12:39:39 AM »
Bull....

It was the current government's platform to yank Spain's troops from Iraq. Well before the bomb. Well before the troops even arrived, actually.

Now because of the bombing, you think think the government's policy should change on account of it. If that were to happen, then the bombing would have achieved a policy change. Not the other way around.

Offline Steve

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Appeasement has the expected result
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2004, 12:45:51 AM »
Nash, I had a good counter point for your view of this discussion but lost in completely when I got caught by your avatar.  You win.
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