Selective service boards and the Draft.

[bullett308]

Originally posted by Cobra412
Well as far as the Air Force goes the draft is highly unlikely beings the fact they are trying to down size us already by 16,000 troops.

Well If they did need the draft It would be for boots in the sand not fighter jocks and there supports crews.

Just a guess.

[GtoRA2]

when I said this scares me, I meant cause it is bad for the country, if  I get the call, I will go and do my best. Running to canada is for cowards. I could never look myself in the mirror again.

[GtoRA2]

off to bed sorry guys

[Cobra412]

Bullett possibly but the fact we are already undermanned and over worked speaks a different story.  Many "fighter jocks and support crews" are spending alot of time over in the middle east.  We have been for many years now.  I have yet to hear of a 12 month tour by anyone but 6 month tours are very common.  Just depends on the unit and their capabilities.

There aren't that many aircraft that have the same capabilities.  The F-117 is a perfect example.  There isn't many of them and there job during war time is essential to the overall mission.  The same goes for U-2's, F-15 Es and A-10s.  Refueling aircraft and cargo support is also needed.  Unless they plan on using civilian airliners for war time again they would also be over worked.  

In the past 2 years I've seen my wife for a total of maybe a year and 3 months of that.  And that doesn't include training deployments and schools that we've gone to.  It also doesn't include the fact that for a majority of the time we did have in the same state together we worked completely different shifts.  We mainly saw each other on the weekends and that was it.  And to add to all that the only reason we were lucky enough to have those 15 months together is because I'm no longer in an active fighter squadron which means I will only deploy or fill a slot in the event a major war kicks off.  If I were in an active squadron then that time could be cut in half again.

Qualification training is another big thing that goes into it.  Not saying the training for the other services is less than ours but you just can't send some new troop out there to work an advanced fighter aircraft and expect to be up to standards for war time.  For them to be up to par they need alot of experience in systems and their quirks.  You don't have alot of time to get a bird off the ground when your quick turning them for combat.  If it's broke it has to get fixed now and get fixed right the first time.  To get that they need time and lots of experience to be good at what they do.  We are seeing more and more new Airmen coming in these days and very few experienced operators staying in.  It's a very bad combination and more often than not we have to throw them to the wolves and force very accelerated training requirements.  Maybe half of those folks subjected to that kind of enviroment will be able to grasp it but the other half will be in complete disarray.

One other thing in regards to the whole training issue.  Not all Airmen come in and plan on staying for extended periods of time.  The average airmen in my career field sign up for 4 years.  Between basic training and there specialty courses they will spend up to 8 months depending on there shred out before they even see a real fighter squadron.  With the current rumours they planned on getting rid of our shred outs and combining three different courses into one.  Each one of those specialty courses run approximately 3 to 3 and a half months a piece for class instruction.  So basic math shows that with having 3 seperate specialty areas, plus 3 months of electronic principals and 6 weeks of basic training these folks wouldn't see a squadron for well over a year of their initial enlistment.  

Even then if their training is cut down to adjust for the very long courses your now placing an even less trained person on the line to keep these planes flying.  And with the time it already takes to train people on just one course from the time they leave basic to the time they get fully trained would be almost around 2 years or more.  They would have to also complete all of their Career Development Courses which is the equivelant of atleast two full years of college on the outside (each CDC set taking approximately 3 months to complete; sets include basic fundementals and electronic principals and then systems training).  By the time they complete all of that and get some experience in the mean time it's time for them to leave.  They may or may not reenlist so you have the 50/50 chance that the last four years spent trying to get these Airmen up to par may be wasted because they aren't staying in.

Basically what I'm getting at is the draft for career fields such as mine aren't the way to go at all and my career field is just one of many that have these same things to deal with.  We stilled need more manning but doing a draft to fill that gap would be a total nightmare and a waste of time and money.

[bullett308]

Oh Dude dont get me wrong .
I am not trying to deminish The very hard and technical work that must be done to keep all those birds in the air.

And It Is sad that so many moms and dads are away from there families for long periods of time.
there sacrifice do not go un noticed by this old grunt

My point was that it is the Marine and the
infantry soldier that is getting killed at a alarming  rate now.
And sooner or later they must be replaced to keep troop strenght up.

I am sure there are hazards to the flights crews on carriers very dangerouse work.

And for the land based flight crews as well .

But It Is the boots In the sand getting shot at.

My respect and prayers go out to you all.

[Cobra412]

Very true and I do believe without a doubt they need replacements.  But as any man or woman in our armed services will say they'd much rather have experience and someone who wants to be there next to them than some person that got snatched out of a pot.  When they are out there fighting to survive they can't be bothered with worrying if the draftee next to them is really gonna be there when they need eachother.

It was rather amazing to see after 9/11 how many men and women wanted to come in to help and protect their fellow countrymen.  This was from all walks of life and all age groups.  Retired military personell in there 60's + wanted to come back in and that shows loyalty to their country.  I highly doubt that the draft will ever be needed again.  Though now we really need replacements for our men and women in the middle east a draft would be a disaster.  Much of the concern is more on the lines of putting fresh troops in a hostile enviroment that though they say is under control but  that a mass troop movement at the current time could disrupt the current operations to a certain extent.  They are all trained to jump right in and do their jobs but there is a good and bad time to do such a massive movement.  During the calm would have been the best time to have replaced personell but again I'm not the one making the calls and its way above my pay grade to even judge their decisions.

[Patches]

This might be a bit off the norm for the "Draft" issue, but here goes (Patches dons his fire retardant suit and straps on his Kevlar
helmet and body armor, digs a very deep fighting hole complete with grenade sump and firing steps).

Life in a free nation is not free; the freedom has been purchased by the blood, limbs, mental anguish and lives of forefathers be they volunteers, or draftees, housewives, sisters, or brothers and fathers; all went into harm's way in some form or another and all served the greater good of the Nation while in the service of the Nation.

I wonder how many free nations have won their freedom strictly from the efforts of volunteers...that is to say, of course, that no one, or volunteer, entered into the service of the Nation by any means other than individualistic altruism toward that specific Nation.

The following is United States of America Specific:

I am not only in favor of a "Draft" for military purposes, I am in favor of expanding the "Draft" to include folks who are not physically elligible to be "Drafted" for Military Service.

I am in favor of "Drafting" folks for National Compulsory Service for a period of service of not less than four years duration and ages ranging from 16 years of age upwards.

National Compulsory Service can, in my opinion, be defined as a program that allows folks who are inelligible for military service for various physical, mental, or educational limitations, an opportunity to serve their Nation in an alternative capacity...along the lines of President Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps of the Depression Era...but allows for physically, mentally, and educationally elligible individuals to be taken into the military service as the needs of the Nation dictate.

[bullett308]

Originally posted by Patches
This might be a bit off the norm for the "Draft" issue, but here goes (Patches dons his fire retardant suit and straps on his Kevlar
helmet and body armor, digs a very deep fighting hole complete with grenade sump and firing steps).

Life in a free nation is not free; the freedom has been purchased by the blood, limbs, mental anguish and lives of forefathers be they volunteers, or draftees, housewives, sisters, or brothers and fathers; all went into harm's way in some form or another and all served the greater good of the Nation while in the service of the Nation.

I wonder how many free nations have won their freedom strictly from the efforts of volunteers...that is to say, of course, that no one, or volunteer, entered into the service of the Nation by any means other than individualistic altruism toward that specific Nation.

The following is United States of America Specific:

I am not only in favor of a "Draft" for military purposes, I am in favor of expanding the "Draft" to include folks who are not physically elligible to be "Drafted" for Military Service.

I am in favor of "Drafting" folks for National Compulsory Service for a period of service of not less than four years duration and ages ranging from 16 years of age upwards.

National Compulsory Service can, in my opinion, be defined as a program that allows folks who are inelligible for military service for various physical, mental, or educational limitations, an opportunity to serve their Nation in an alternative capacity...along the lines of President Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps of the Depression Era...but allows for physically, mentally, and educationally elligible individuals to be taken into the military service as the needs of the Nation dictate.

In total agreement see my above post.
very good point about  CCC.

[DiabloTX]

Don't really know where to start here.  At my work I have seen 3 kids volunteer for Army service.  Another has been trying HARD to get into the Air Force.  If this is reflective of kids thier age (19 - 25) or just a high percentage of enlistment I do not know.  I think that kids understand, for the most part, what they are getting into.  If not they should do more research before throwing up their right hand and taking the oath.  

Me?  I have 10 1/2 years service as of right now.  3 years and 3 months sea duty.  Volunteered twice for active recall since 9/11.  I am willing to do whatever my country needs me to do.  I am still waiting for my orders for recall, I'd love nothing more than to go active.

BTW, I have had a number of my unit members recalled to active service.  2 of them have since come home and committed suicide.  Why?  Not because of their service but because of a lack of family support before and after they left.  One of them was my best friend.  He and I had been friends since day one in the reserves.  I never even knew he had come back from active duty.  They found him hanging from a tree out in the woods.  I never even got to say goodbye.

ET3 Michael Brantner, where ever you are.  I hope you have finally found peace.

SK2 SKW
Supply Dept. Head
CDS-6 Det "E"
NMCRC Houston, Tx.

[Eagler]

they have enough button pushers/spotters


all they need are more cruise missiles/laser guided munitions

[storch]

More cruise missles and smart bombs?  button pushers eagler?  It takes time, training, dedication and preparation to keep those systems operable.

The services, even the infantry has become highly specialized and it takes at least year of training to get anyone up to be competent.  

I voluntarily enlisted April 29, 1975 hoping to make it to the last curtain in Viet-Nam all the dang schooling kept me outta the fleet until September 23, 1976 the first day I stepped aboard USS Bigelow (DD 942) to work on the phone systems ( Interior Communications) and the Gyro mainly.  

I can't even begin to imagine the level of training that would currently be required.  

In the fleet damage control is a big issue and from the captain down to the cooks and support perssonel every one needs to able to perform a varied types underway repairs.  Plugging holes to stop flooding, putting out fires, splicing damaged power/comm lines, first aid and unexploded ord. disposal.  the list is extensive.  

When I served this was taken seriously by most crew members.  When we were underway we would spend the majority of the in transit time at general quarters manning our battle stations.  

I would not have wanted to be aboard the USS Cole when those muslims exploded themselves along side her. The possibilty of serving next to an unmotivated conscript that probably didn't take their training seriously and was smoking dope 1/2 time is frightening.  That is what happens lots of times with conscripts.

[lasersailor184]

Nuke is right.  Unless the Taliban and the entire arab League of Nations invades the US, no one is going to enact the draft.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by storch
More cruise missles and smart bombs?  button pushers eagler?  It takes time, training, dedication and preparation to keep those systems operable.

and they are already in place

more remote warfare and less hand to hand, the days of trench fighting is over - how about jets a2a like ww2 planes.. don't think so

[Westy]

"But I'd go Navy (if I could) "

 Good choice. (honestly).  

 An added bonus for that choice is there's no serious threat to the USN these days. Unless the British or French decide they don't like us  - in a hostile kind of way.
  I've recommended to my in-laws (and my brother himself) that thier kids choose the USN on thier selective service sign ups.  Or the Air Force but I think you get a more rounded experience in the navy.
 And with the current Middle East situation I suggested they avoid the Army and Marines unless they actually WANT to go to Iraq (for in all likely hood where they'll end up) where they will simply be targets and endure a high risk of dying - and for what?.



"Unless the Taliban and the entire arab League of Nations invades the US, no one is going to enact the draft."


 Wishful thinking? (ie: that the draft won't come unless that invaded).    N Korea didn't invade the US and neither did N Veitnam btu we had the draft.  Now the US government is doing things that cause it to be in dire need of augmenting the Army and Marines.  So while I'm not 100% sure the draft is coming, it would not surprise me in the least if does, and soon.

[lasersailor184]

No.  Anyone who even utters the word "Draft" would be instantly killed.

Not necessarily Politically killed either...