Author Topic: M1 and now a AH-64 Apache  (Read 1157 times)

Offline SunTracker

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M1 and now a AH-64 Apache
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2004, 10:12:01 AM »
This is going to sound like a war story, but I read it in Army Times.  An M1 last year was hit by some type of needle-like round that entered the side of the tank, broke the gunners chair, and exited the other side of the tank.

Offline TheDudeDVant

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M1 and now a AH-64 Apache
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2004, 10:17:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
This is going to sound like a war story, but I read it in Army Times.  An M1 last year was hit by some type of needle-like round that entered the side of the tank, broke the gunners chair, and exited the other side of the tank.


Pictures of it were posted here at one time.. Was very strange looking indeed.. The weapon was not your everday .22 magnum for sure..

dude

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2004, 10:38:18 AM »
sounds like some sort of sabot

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2004, 12:15:12 PM »
Look folks, please try to understand this.

THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING AS AN INVULNERABLE TANK / HELICOPTER.

The M1, in all it's varients is an extremely capable and survivable tank but it is not invulnerable. The armor is designed to defeat as much as possible whatever is fired at it but it can be penetrated, escpecially from the top, bottom, sides and rear by explosive and kinetic energy weapons. That is specifically why they placed the ammo rack behid a blast door and had blow out panels in the turret over the ammo storage area.

An RPG CAN make a mobility hit on the tank and then make the tank subjetct to more severe attacks by keeping it stuck in one area. The RPG can penetrate the sides of the tank hull and the crew injured from spalling and shrapnell inside the crew compartment. An urban combat environment is extremely hazardous for armored vehicles due to the proximity of enemy gunners and antitank weapons not to mention flanking shots from hide positions. That is one of the reasons that armor does NOT fight alone but is used in a combined arms operation so that each part of the team is supported by the other.

The same goes for the Apache. The running gear was designed to take 20mm hits and continue to work. Take a look at the size differential between a 20mm and a rpg. There is quite a bit more power in the rpg. Remember the experiance in Somalia, given enough rpg rounds launched, someone is going to take a hit that will take down the helicopter. Since the helo's have to support in a close combat environment  (urban combat), that places them in reach of the manpads and rpg's that the enemy has.

It isn't a failure of the equipment, it's a failure of the understanding of the limitations of the equipment that leads to news stories complaining about losses of the vehicles. When you put combat equipment into a very hostile environment, particularly one that does not allow the crews to exploit their strengths, there will be losses. Period.
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Offline SunTracker

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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2004, 12:17:58 PM »
Your wrong. If you made a tank completely out of diamonds it would be indestructable.

Offline MJHerman

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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2004, 12:18:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Your wrong. If you made a tank completely out of diamonds it would be indestructable.


And real purty too...

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2004, 12:28:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Your wrong. If you made a tank completely out of diamonds it would be indestructable.


One good hit and the diamond tank would break in two and you'd have half the worlds mercenaries after your arse :D

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2004, 12:30:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunTracker
Your wrong. If you made a tank completely out of diamonds it would be indestructable.


You are joking right?  You do know that diamonds, while hard - like glass and porcelin are hard, are very very brittle and that you can easily crush a diamond...

Offline minus

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« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2004, 02:34:26 PM »
diamonds , lol that thingy burn easy  , very easy , like 1100 Celsium, do not forget is it a CARBON nothing alse:)

Offline Maverick

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M1 and now a AH-64 Apache
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2004, 04:14:13 PM »
DAYUMMM suntracker you got some action on that hook!















<-- opening hook pliers and novocaine concession. Each for $15.00! Get them now before rust sets in!

If you wait till then, the do it yourself tetanus shots will be going for $50.00!!!!
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Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2004, 05:44:00 PM »
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Originally posted by Hortlund
There is no weapon in the terrorist arsenal that would turn a M1 into a flaming wreck. There are several ways to get a mobility kill, for example a mine or a lucky RPG-shot.


That is just plain wrong Hortlund.  An RPG-7 fired onto the engine deck of an Abrams, can and will destroy the Abrams. The crew will survive, but the engine compartment and fuel WILL burn, ultimately consuming the vehicle if the fire surpression system is punctured which is almost guarateed in that scenario.
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2004, 05:51:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
That is just plain wrong Hortlund.  An RPG-7 fired onto the engine deck of an Abrams, can and will destroy the Abrams. The crew will survive, but the engine compartment and fuel WILL burn, ultimately consuming the vehicle if the fire surpression system is punctured which is almost guarateed in that scenario.



hence, the fire suppression system...

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2004, 05:52:18 PM »
yup Bodhi... it could do that. Im guessing it wont be long before one would have to design tanks/apc's with more/equal armour on the sides and back even tho they will get extremly heavy. Maybe they will figure out some type of new "plastic/composit" armour.. they are working on consepts.

The use of amored vechicles in buildt up areas and roads with some sort of cover on either side is naturally increasing because of the decrease in regular tank battles where the oponents face eachother in open terrain. Designers must take this into consideration.

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2004, 06:01:03 PM »
Grun...

have they figured out what kind of manpad that hit the apache?

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2004, 10:26:41 PM »
Make the tanks out of deleted uranium.  Or dilithium crystals.