Pilot Report, First Jepp Charts

[Golfer]

Okay so I have just recieved the first revision of my Jeppesen subscription and thought I'd collect my thoughts and think about the pro's and con's of these charts, after all I paid a !#$^ load of money for them.

I ordered a 1 year revision service for EC-2, which is Ohio and Indiana.

Well I have the Uber-Plastic binder and its good, no complaints.

The approach plates themselves are good, I like the flow and all the information they give you for the approaches and DP's and STARS.  I went crazy because they are laid out differently than the FAA Charts.  For example, my home airport is the first listed in Columbus, OH in the FAA charts.  With Jepps, it is the last...drove me nuts for a short time while fishing for the proper chart after a diversion.  This problem was solved by picking up some colored dividers for the binder and can list Departure, Destination and Alternate airports for easy finds.  A little less intuitive than the FAA Method of Alphabetical City and then Alphabetical Airport name, not designator.

The En-Route charts they send leave a lot to be desired in my opinion.  They have the Jet routes printed on them...whoopee!!!  I am not flying a jet so that is a green line I don't need to be there.  Also, I have 3 charts that covers the same area that 2 FAA charts cover, one extra piece of paper to fish through and not lose.  Also, they are printed on tissue paper compared to the FAA charts.  The FAA charts don't last me very long due to fold-unfold-inventafold while in flight so I am happy if 2 last me for a full revision.  These lasted the whole time because I really went out of my way to care for them, but they did tear along the folds after a while.  Now, they are smaller and are easier to fold/unfold in flight because they are smaller.  I'd call it a draw, but I am not impressed with the lack of substance the paper has.  It is paper I'd expect to come in a bag after I bought jewelery for the girlie.  (Idea for christmas time for female pilots, boys!)

Any other aviators out there prefer one to the other and for what reasons?  I do enjoy the approach plates, but have up to this points always used FAA/NOS charts and its the Jepps that are new to me.

[beet1e]

Hi Golfer,

I stopped flying in 99, but I was a big fan of the Bottlang/Jeppesen charts. In Europe, the Jeppesens were the IFR charts. But then they realised the needs of the VFR pilot were real and produced Bottlang VFR charts - ring binder jobs. A small "in flight" binder was produced, and I used to take my airport charts from the main binder, and put them in the in flight binder, along with the charts for diversion airfields.

There is considerable suckage in Britain, where a brick wall is built between IFR and VFR. The US was better at integrating the two into the same airspace, so maybe you have no need for separate IFR and VFR versions. France and the rest of the continent was much more VFR friendly than Britain.

One problem we all had was 1989 when the Berlin wall came down and Germany became integrated. There would be a wad of updates for Germany žinch thick every month. I got fed up with filing the updates and cancelled my subscription for Germany!

[Golfer]

In the U.S. the VFR only pilot has no trouble whatsoever fitting into our system.  This can be credited to the great folks who man the radar screens and control towers.  I have not flown in Europe, but in the U.S. before I was instrument rated only once did I have an airspace issue.  It was the last day of the Dayton Airshow, 2003 and was just off of Brookeville (10 west of the intl airport which was exactly on my route).  I took off and gave a flyby for some squaddies who had dropped me off, I won't call that buzz job a buzz job  After that was done I waggled my wings and gave Dayton approach a call.  The weather was really really Marginal and I had 4-5 miles in some serious haze and no real ceiling...just murk.  Well the Thunderbirds had just completed a routine and they opened up for the airline arrivals and the controller had no time for my little skyhawk.  Remain under the shelf and dont enter the Charlie...fair enough I thought to myself and used the GPS and sectional to fly a decent GPS Arc at 5.5 miles. (before I knew what a DME arc was)

I've never been turned away for flight following from a Class C or a Center controller but that once, and Cincinnatti, OH is now a Class B and have had no trouble talking to them.  Now that I am IFR (commercial too..woohoo!) the world is a simpler place.  I remember when I'd take friends up they were astonished I didn't need a flight plan or talk to ATC (except for ground and tower at my Class D base) throughout the flight.  It's easy and fun and our controllers here do a great job "dealing" with those VFR 'pesks' that number in excess of 400,000 here in the states.  That stat comes from the roughly 700,000 pilots that are here, and about half are Instrument rated and a fairly small percentage of those are current.

Anyways...Comments on Jepp Charts vs FAA.  I know that Airlines all use Jepps, and unlike my previous instructors I dont use them because I want to be like an airline pilot, I want to use whats easiest for me and know about both.  I'll be in the big(ger) iron soon enough.

[jigsaw]

When I started out, I was flip flopping between Jepp and NOS. Since most all the "big guys" use Jepp, I ended up phasing out the NOS style. Even most of the flight schools have moved away from NOS. I can still flip flop between the two, but I've gotten where I prefer the Jepp as they've add a lot of detail in the later formats.

FAA written exams are still using the old NOS style, and probably will be for a while. Not sure if they are going to update the pictures when they make the upcoming test changes.

I do agree that it can be confusing finding some airports due to their organization. If you were flying into an unfamiliar area, it just amounts to a little more prep work. I remember the first time shooting the approach into FFZ (Falcon). Couldn't find the plate for squat. My instructor chuckled and finally told me it was under "Mesa."

Sportys has recently come out with the NOS style plates on DVD for about $10 a cycle. Covers the entire U.S. and you can print only what you want. I'm still stuck doing the manual cycle updates, but it gives me an excuse to go sit at Starbucks every few weeks.

[Golfer]

Originally posted by jigsaw
Sportys has recently come out with the NOS style plates on DVD for about $10 a cycle. Covers the entire U.S. and you can print only what you want. I'm still stuck doing the manual cycle updates, but it gives me an excuse to go sit at Starbucks every few weeks.

I do recall seeing something of an ad for this not long ago, perhaps while lounging in the lounge.  I'll look into it but I'm still new to the Jepps and like anything will need a bit of time to adjust, hence the full year subscription for my local Jepps.  Since I'm finishing my CFI up by mid-May obviously I will need to prepare students with NOS, but I don't think it will hurt to use Jepps for personal flying and NOS for teaching.  That will be a good way to keep up to speed on both formats.  Besides, NOS charts are considerably cheaper at a cost of $0.00 every 56 days for any/everything I need.  Fringe benefits are nice.

[beet1e]

Interesting posts, Golfer. All the best in your new career!

But what's this...

The weather was really really Marginal and I had 4-5 miles in some serious haze and no real ceiling...just murk.

Hey, that would be a decent day in England! The most marginal weather I flew in was a short hop from Oxford to Elstree. Vis. reported as 1600 metres. I phoned the destination and was told to expect 5000 metres. I was able to fly above the murk layer en route, but then had to descend to 2,400' because I was getting close to London/LHR class A airspace. Elstree is next to a lake - easy to spot. All was well until I had to make that 180° turn on to final and was looking into the sun, and could see... nothing. Just a white screen. Had to look out of the side windows to judge the approach.

Quite often when flying to the continent across the English channel, you can see nothing. Just a blue/grey void because there's nothing out there to look at. The vis might be 8km though, so it's technically VMC.

The whole VFR deal in the US is 100 times better than what we have here. I've flown solo in about 4 US states - IL,IA,CO,CA. I normally tried to route along the Victor/VFR airways - class E?

Oh, and I like the way the US ATC guys address the pilots as "Sir".

[Golfer]

4 miles in haze is some rough stuff for a VFR only pilot with less than a hundred hours.  Called it a learning experience and promised my hindside I'd keep a close call.  I never felt I exceeded capabilities but the headsupometer was a few ticks higher.

Now, flying in a Piper Aztec with the Geronimo conversion whos working instruments consisted of a Com1 that transmitted, a Com2 that recieved and an ADF that sat there and didn't work.  I was trying to get into an airport that was IFR and it's only approach is an NDB.  Couldn't be done, I did elect to first accept vectors to the airport and see if i could peek down through the scud and see runway...no go when I passed it on my handheld GPS.  Shot a VOR approach into an airport south of there, cancelled IFR and grabbed a sectional and navigated up the route that connected these two towns that are roughly 10 miles apart.  I was at 800 feet and had a good mile of visibility.  Good thing two were on board, while one flew the other navigated to avoid all obstacles and when we got to the airport, it was surrounded by a 'bowl' of VFR weather, clouds to boot.  Weather is some goofy stuff.  Now that was scud running and CRM...not necessarily smart though.  I'm 20 and that makes me invincible, right?  

[slimm50]

Originally posted by Golfer
4 miles in haze is some rough stuff for a VFR only pilot with less than a hundred hours.  Called it a learning experience and promised my hindside I'd keep a close call.  I never felt I exceeded capabilities but the headsupometer was a few ticks higher.

Now, flying in a Piper Aztec with the Geronimo conversion whos working instruments consisted of a Com1 that transmitted, a Com2 that recieved and an ADF that sat there and didn't work.  I was trying to get into an airport that was IFR and it's only approach is an NDB.  Couldn't be done, I did elect to first accept vectors to the airport and see if i could peek down through the scud and see runway...no go when I passed it on my handheld GPS.  Shot a VOR approach into an airport south of there, cancelled IFR and grabbed a sectional and navigated up the route that connected these two towns that are roughly 10 miles apart.  I was at 800 feet and had a good mile of visibility.  Good thing two were on board, while one flew the other navigated to avoid all obstacles and when we got to the airport, it was surrounded by a 'bowl' of VFR weather, clouds to boot.  Weather is some goofy stuff.  Now that was scud running and CRM...not necessarily smart though.  I'm 20 and that makes me invincible, right?  

Holy Crap, Batman!:eek:  You're lucky to be here to be harrassed by the rest of us.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Golfer
4 miles in haze is some rough stuff for a VFR only pilot with less than a hundred hours.  

4 miles isn't bad - that's about 7000 metres. CAVOK is only what - 10km?

[Golfer]

To that point I had never really made any trips that could be considered cross countries (greater than 50nm here in the U.S.) with visibility lower than 10 miles, it's nothing special now but it was then.