Author Topic: side balancing (again)  (Read 2246 times)

Offline Siaf__csf

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2004, 11:35:53 AM »
The rooks were in the bucket for so many months in a row that I quit AH because of it. You can only fight 10:1 for so long and then you get bored.

I'd be happy to see bish stay in the bucket for 8-12 months..

Offline 68DevilM

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2004, 11:42:50 AM »
ok i guess were are all feeling outnumbered! ecept the rooks but it works out i guess!

i mean theres usually a couple nights that the knights out number the others and the same for the rooks and the bish, i guess it just depends on what squad nights the majority of sqauds get on:D

Offline Furious

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2004, 11:46:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by 68DevilM
...should be downright illegal, like tratior they should be shot:mad:


ehehe, traitors to a make believe country in a video game.

Offline 68DevilM

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2004, 11:54:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furious
ehehe, traitors to a make believe country in a video game.


well not really shot but how bout this you need to give up 500 fighter perks to change country

Offline Overlag

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2004, 12:00:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by BigGun
Bish+Knight United!!!!


:aok :D
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Offline meddog

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2004, 12:00:08 PM »
Hmm what to say.  I have seen two problems reguarding numbers.  1st,  huge disparities in numbers (by over 50) does create a significant imbalance which leads to one country rolling over another due to the horde mentality.  Some people see fighting in a horde as fighting over scraps and get bored, others see it as safety in numbers and an easy way to get their stats up from vulching.  There are some people out there that will not fly in an area unless they are surrounded by 2 or 3 buddies.  

The other side to this coin is the overall way a particular country, squad or group of people conduct it's battles or attack strategies.  I have seen the Knights  kick butt when they are out numbered by 20 or more people and I have seen the Knights get their butts kicked when we have the numbers. Which tells me that excluding huge number disparities, its about tactics and team work.  I've seen squads post missions and have 20 people join only to give up and quit, leaving other people hanging out to dry because they met a little opposition and didn't want to ruin their stats and ranking.  I've seen 15 people fight over a base with minimal opposition for hours only to have the USMC/ TFW squad come in and take care of business and takeing the base in 10 minutes or take a neighboring base with the same level of opposition with half the people in 15 or 20 minutes.  I've seen a squad fight over a base for hours and not only do they not take the base, they lose the base that they were upping from.  It comes down to prioritizing targets, coordinating a defense or an offense, using your head for something other than a place to park your head set on.  I have watched map after map that the Knights like to concentrate in the middle and for the most part pay no attention to the flanks.  The Bishops and the Rooks have seemed to notice this and have concentrated their efforts in attack ing our flanks.  They usually capture 3 or more bases before the Knights decide that maybe they should defend the flanks and as soon as some one with experience and half a brain comes on country channel and tries to offer some advise on what could be done to stop the offense or take the base quicker and with less effort they are ignored and people seem to do the exact opposite out of spite because they are offended that any one is trying to tell them what to do.  I've seen all too aften people who are too busy flying in their hordes to go after the stragglers who are out porking bases or investigate a flashing base to see if it's an noe mission or GV attack.  Some people haven't learned how this game works and either pork targets that don't need porking or don't pork targets that need porking.  People haven't learned the difference between defensive and offensive porking and why or why not a specific target is or isn't proked.  All these things play a factor to some degree as to what effect numbers will have on the game on any given day at any given time.  To boil things down if you don't work as a team, prioritize targets and keep tabs on what the enemy is doing, unless you out number the enemy by 100 people, it doesn't matter how many people are online your going to lose.
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Offline lazs2

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2004, 12:30:37 PM »
the side with the numbers "wins" the war.  that is all there is to the "strat" in AH face and quit pretending otherwise.

now, I really don't care who "wins" ... I care how the "win" comes about... if it means loss of radar and fuel and hordes of fluffs and sky accountants taking sissy little kicks at anyone who would dare to up from one of the capped fields... well...

that's no fun.

lazs

Offline kj714

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2004, 01:05:37 PM »
It's about Quality, not quantity.

So what the Rooks have numbers, it cracks me up how long it usually takes them to roll the map.

If you are serious about stopping the rook horde, then Knit and Bish gotta work together a little bit. Here's the general idea:

On any given Sunday -

1. Bish hit Rooks

2. Knits hit Rooks

3. Bish and Knits do not hit each other.

As juicy as those undefended B or K bases look across your border, leave them alone.

If Rooks have 275 players on and BisNits have a combined 350 players on, guess who loses.

Squad CO's can make it happen.

If not, just take up your fav bomber killer and get it on.

Offline Kev367th

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2004, 04:15:21 PM »
Actaully bish and knits tried the joint effort agianst the rookies few months back. Overall it worked quite well although there was still the odd few who went their own way.
Anyway the result was once the rooks realized what was happening their numbers dropped by about 100 in 15 mins...maybe a lesson here?
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Offline Overlag

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2004, 04:19:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Actaully bish and knits tried the joint effort agianst the rookies few months back. Overall it worked quite well although there was still the odd few who went their own way.
Anyway the result was once the rooks realized what was happening their numbers dropped by about 100 in 15 mins...maybe a lesson here?


rooks dont like fighting?:aok
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Offline kj714

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2004, 05:02:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Actaully bish and knits tried the joint effort agianst the rookies few months back. Overall it worked quite well although there was still the odd few who went their own way.
Anyway the result was once the rooks realized what was happening their numbers dropped by about 100 in 15 mins...maybe a lesson here?


Exactly.

Which is why it's up to the players, not HT or Skuzzy, to do something about it.

Offline SKurj

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2004, 05:05:03 PM »
Yeah such a firggen shame.. I logged in last night to find the rooks outnumbered by both knits and bish...



This has to stop!!


SKurj

Offline Grizzly

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2004, 11:49:20 PM »
I think the problem is the map reset incentive. That's what causes squads to unite and roll over the opposition. And to some it's more fun to gang than getting ganged, so they switch sides and things get even worse. I doubt if HiTech will change anything, but maybe we can.

Why not ignore a country when it has numbers and starts gang banging everything in sight? If the Rooks have numbers, the Bish and Knits can fight each other and ignore them. Let them sweep through the arena and have their precious reset. The map will change and things might even out. Maybe the Rooks (and others) will get bored with the squad ops arena gang banging stupidity if no one plays with them. What's happening now is ruining a great game.

grizzly

Offline Kweassa

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side balancing (again)
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2004, 01:40:26 AM »
No solution at all to this problem. Whatever it is, its not gonna work - or, not gonna work fast enough to make a difference.


 Numbers fluctuate between countries during a span of certain time. One must understand this as a social phenomenon than just a simple game.

 In the old days where the prime time arena was like 200~300 people max, everybody knew everbody. Every squad knew everysquad. To the problems of one side the pilots of other countries empathized. The community was tied a lot closer to each and every member, and thus self-regulation and organization was usually enough to balance the meager problems concerning pilot numbers.

 The problem is, AH has grown out of that stage.

 If the "good ol' arena" we all cherished was a small farming town, the current AH is like a large metropolitan city.

 As the numbers grew, so did the anonymity.

 Notice how channel 1 banter is a lot more hostile and severe than it used to be, not to mention frequent. In the old days, everybody knew everybody. The chances are that human beings are usually nice to someone they know. However, as the community and the arena grows larger a lot of people you don't know are playing the game with you. You feel less obligated to help them play a fun game, than emphasize on things such as internet etiquettes, manners, voluntary balancing of numbers, etc etc.

  It can also be said that the three different countries, and the pilots that inhabit it, are a lot more competitive towards others, and also more oriented towards the loyalty to his own country than common good.

 It's like the formation of Nationalism between the 16th~20th centuries. In a sense, the MA is indeed a "war". Ruthless attrition is what wins the war. Huge numbers advantage doesn't mean a "terrible game for fellow gamers" like it used to. It merely means "an effective display of power to crush the opposition".  More and more people are anonymous to each other, and the spirit of social and communal interaction is usually limited to the strict borders of one's own country.

 The veterans 'lived' at a different age. Now, the arena easily goes over 600 people at weekends. About 60~70% of the current AH population are 'newcomers'. Basically, AH doesn't "belong" to "us" anymore - whether we like it or not.

 The more average gamer, who recently joined AH, has no prior affiliations with other squads and other countries. He comes into the MA, a new society, and he naturally attaches himself to the people that immediately greet them. Why should he care about the other country or their pilots, who are no more than mere enemies that should be shot down? Sacrificing his current ties and relationships with the people he know, within his current country?

 ....


 Now, in a real world society, as such problems grow, people come to realization that a common rule is needed. They gather around and discuss things, come to a consensus, and set out some things which should be changed.

 However, since no player has any kind of authority over the society in a game, the power to change things for the common good is solely concentrated to the developers, and they alone can make changes that matter.

 However, since the HTC staff has to look out for people of all three countries, their decision can be only influenced by a unignorable, huge public opinion. They'd definately not make quick decisions.

 Another thing to consider, is that any sort of "changes" made to the MA concerning numbers, has a high chance of regulating or limiting certain freedoms the player used to have.

 Basically the numbers problem is a freedom problem - where the individual freedom of certain players of a certain country, in a collective level, unfortunately hurts the rights of other players of other countries.

 ..

 So any fundamental change would have to come in this order:

1. Almost all members of AH players have to start realizing that certain aspects of their choices should be limited, or reconsidered, for the goal of common good.

2. The collective opinion and consensus concerning the common good, has to be addressed and requested to the developers.

3. Certain aspects of reality concerning warring factions, should be requested to be implemented in the game, following the above defined procedures - basic organization, difference in operating sectors, a system that might limit the choice of a players country according to numbers, etc etc etc...

 ..

 Basically all three of above must condition must be fulfilled for anything to change. People must collect the overall opinion of their countrymates, it must be addressed to the developers, and they must also come up with an alternative method to implement in case the change is sanctioned.

 Dividing arenas might work, but its basically a retro solution - sort of like, "if a metropolitan city has problems, then drive it back to the stone age so the people are all split up again".


 ...


 So, are we willing to accept the consequences of what we ask for? I'm guessing not.

Offline moto61

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Bish Nit unification
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2004, 02:12:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kev367th
Actaully bish and knits tried the joint effort agianst the rookies few months back. Overall it worked quite well although there was still the odd few who went their own way.
Anyway the result was once the rooks realized what was happening their numbers dropped by about 100 in 15 mins...maybe a lesson here?


I remeber an instance where we tried this with Knits and they renigged on the setup and took bases while we were a couple bases deep behind bases they were supposed to hit.

The only problem with this type coalition is that even if you get opposing country squads involved there are enough of the unattached players who won't or don't get the word and they continue to hit bases during the cease fire causing it to look like one side was purposely taking advantage of the opportunity created.

Sounds to me like for this to work each country needs a Commander-in-Chief. In that case I would like to nominate Moto61 a natural Warrior, Diplomat, Leadrer if there ever was one. :rofl :rofl

Moto61