Well, the game I loved is dead and gone.

[AVRO1]

I have been in a 4 or 5 squads but none of them went to the TA or DA to train.  It would be much less frustrating then just trying to help my country and dying wondering what I did wrong.

Leaving trainning to squads makes sense.

I was only trying to say that some people don't fight because they do not know how.  Sorry if I offended anyone.

I undertsand that you cannot know that the guy you just killed is a dweeb and needs help.
I was just saying that it is frustrating to try to learn in today's MA with all the hordes.
What I meant is that some people who want to improve just don't know where to go for help.


dedalos
I have had about 10 accounts in those 3 years.

[Vortex]

Originally posted by beet1e
Urchin

I have always maintained that any game needs some semblance of rules or structure - the sort of deal that AH2/TOD is meant to offer.

....



What you're now seeing is the result of that policy.

I'd have to disagree with the above. I think the very things that you (and undoubtedly many others) seek from the sim are the very things that folks like Urchin are not seeking out of the game. Structure and rules does little for those that want to get back to the experience that had none of that. As games evolve in size and scope this may indeed be required. But that very evolution changes the game experience fundamentally.

AirWarrior in its infancy was busy if you had 25 people flying. There was no structure, no rules, no nothing. Find a fight and have at it. It was the quintissential 1 vs 1 combat game. A dynamic H2H environment really. I think Sloth was about the only person who ever flew a Gooney bird between 1989 and 1992. The game just wasn't about that. And as AW grew and evolved to a more market driven animal, the "veterans" reeled at the changes and filtered out...

And then came War Birds. HT's and Killer's creation that took the realism to the next level. But the community there grew and changed and the corporate world pushed and pulled at what Warbirds was to be...

Then came AH. Although I never saw it in its infancy I gather the world was much like AW in its early years, just with a bigger player base. But a hard core player base that could still find those mano-e-mano encounters, with no rules, no structure, just "the fight". And this game evolves too, and (hopefully) becomes more profitable for its operators. But as it scales, so too does the game experience.

The unfortunate outcome is that the rules you speak of are the very things that many seeking the simple combat experience shun. That's not meant as a slight of your position. Rather it is the dichotomy that faces designers in this genre that look to expand the appeal of their sims while at the same time holding onto those core characteristics that got them to where they are.

I certainly can't offer a solution short of "don't get big!"...which is of course not a solution at all. Its definitely not a new problem though.

[moto61]

I 'll take the pizza any day to the small Island maps.

I don't understand the line of thought that you get more 1 on 1 fights on a small map than crams everyone together. That just doesn't add up to what I've seen.

If I had my druthers I'd druther they got rid of all the small maps.

I followed the thread all the way down to this point and there are several things I agree and disagree with but, I will agree with the discussion over how pious and rude some pilots are about getting shot down. If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.

I make no claims to be a good stick but it really make me feel good when I get a or even a after I get shot down or shoot someone down. There is so much crap on channel 1 I rarely leave it unsquelched.

Moto61

[WldThing]

Originally posted by moto61
If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.

Talk about a dream job

[Steve]

I don't understand the line of thought that you get more 1 on 1 fights on a small map than crams everyone together. That just doesn't add up to what I've seen.

I said there were more fights to be found on the small maps... don't remember ever mentioning more 1v'1's.

[Shane]

Originally posted by WldThing
But what i did do,  is i went to the DA with Aknimitz,  MrRipley,  and a few other pilots that gave me tips and i recorded every single thing they wrote and practiced and practiced.

yeah, yeah, lump me in with "others."

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by AVRO1
I hate it when the vets blame newbies on these boards.
What the ***** are you doing to help them learn?
Many who whine don't do squat to help dweebs like me.

Average 3 Step Flight For Me:
1) Take off.
2) Meet a horde.
3) Get slaughtered.

How the hell am I suppose to learn anything from that?
I can't learn from mistakes I don't understand.

Aces High needs trainers, but it simply cannot have enough to train the massive number of dweebs it as.

So maybe what it needs is a regular trainning event.

BIG to those who have helped me in the last 3 years.

Stop flying Spit 9's......

[Morpheus]

If the social environment here is different from the way it used to be then maybe the vets need to break the ice and break the cycle and bring some civility back to channel 1. HTC could do a better job of monitoring the real trash too.

With a game as fun as it is and should be for that matter we all let our emotions get the better of us at times. Tho I think many if not most can keep it to a minimum when it comes to vulgarity. We all snap, its what makes us human and there isnt a single thing anyone can do to change that.

I do agree with you tho moto that the language on channel 1 has gotten worse over time. Many times its just the nature of the conversation that is just way out of line rather than people cursing. Lord knows I am no angle. But there is a line that I draw between having fun with say Steve, Slapshot, Jinx, the list can go on and on... There is a line between that and just down right nasty rude out of line comments.

I often wonder how new players take this kind of thing on Channel 1 when they first see it. Do they think this is the accepted norm? to be cursing people out? And if not cursing people out just being a plain old moron... do they think its what Aces High is? I hope not...

This is a great game, I enjoy it very much. From laughing till im am blue in the face on VOX or having a great fight in the air or on the ground, there is almost always something I can look forward to when logging in. And that is what keeps me playing Aces High...

Like I said, I am not trying to depict myself as a saint. I wouldnt want that anyways But there is a difference like I said between having and just being down right mean. And I do agree we need more monitors or something, anything...

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Vortex
I'd have to disagree with the above. I think the very things that you (and undoubtedly many others) seek from the sim are the very things that folks like Urchin are not seeking out of the game. Structure and rules does little for those that want to get back to the experience that had none of that. As games evolve in size and scope this may indeed be required. But that very evolution changes the game experience fundamentally.  

Vortex, I accept your point of view. I prefer situations where the air combat is driven by something else - probably a field capture attempt or base defence. There is a purpose/objective. However, many of the furball-fundamentalists have a binary viewpoint. Lazs once said that there were only two types of people in the game  - furballers and toolshed killers. I rarely see validity in binary viewpoints, and certainly not that one.

The problems with not having any form of structure are manifold: Hording, suiciding the CV, pork-n-auger, grab the best plane for the job, the dreaded "conveyor belt", the steamroller... and the arena just becomes a huge melee. Also the early planes don't get much of a chance in an arena where it's 1945 every day and all planes are available all the time. That's why about 50% of all the cons I saw last night were P51 cherrypickers. And on the current map where the fields are crammed together, they can probably cap 2-3 bases simultaneously.  I quickly get bored with that.

On the other hand, I had a hugely entertaining session against Taki's Tyrants about a week ago -  on the Pizza as it happens. We fought like gentlemen between two bases. No cherrypick opportunists from a third base 2 minutes away.

Not wishing to turn this into a mapwhine, but what I *like* about pizza is that it makes a lot of the gamey crap non viable in an arena where there are no rules, or at least no controlling influences to limit the gamey crap of which so many of us have grown so tired.

[AVRO1]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Stop flying Spit 9's......

I expected better from you Shadenfreude

I have never flown spits much in the MA.

I like the P51D for dive bombing, mostly because it's the only plane I can hit targets with regularly .

I like the 202, FM2 and Hurri2C for base defense.

I usually fight in the vertical but I just don't conserve my energy well I think.
Or maybe I am just using the wrong planes for it .

Maybe I will give Rolex's squad a chance.

[lazs2]

hmm... beetle ays that my binary viewpoint is wrong and then goes on to explain the two types of gameplay that are possible... organized/structured/horde/gangbang/suicide porking  (toolshed killing) and... a furball between him and some other players on, of all things, the pizza map that was possible because of a gentlemans agreement..

his furball could easily have been trashed (as he admits) because the map allowed it.  

I do not wish to depend on the mood or good will of the players with maps like pizza sucks.

 Much better to simply give lots of opportunity for furballs by having fester maps and moving away when the building battlers and talentless suicide porkers decide to "win the war" by ruining the fight that is taking place and then looking like a puppy that thinks it did good.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
his furball could easily have been trashed (as he admits) because the map allowed it.    

I never said anything of the kind. The battle between Taki's side and mine involved both toolshed destruction AND air combat AND GV duffing. We had M3s rolling into Taki's base. Taki himself came down and wiped out our VH. Then he and his guys got our base. We got it back using our CV as a base. Although Taki's bunch was outnumbered, they held it well because they were well coordinated and well organised as a squad.

So as for the above being EITHER a furball OR a toolshed killing exercise, it was neither. It was a combination of three things, with ownership of the base being the driving force.

[Innominate]

Perk the heavy ordnance, strengthen the field strat(fuel, ord, barracks, etc)

The problem of field porking is that there is no way to beat a high-alt field porker.  You come in high, make your attack run, then crash or get shot down, and get a new plane without bothering to rtb.  Nothing lost, target destroyed, quick trip back home.

Add a small perk price to a plane when it's loaded with heavy ord, and it forces a bit of skill into these attack runs.

If anyone likes, I have a pretty complete writeup of it somewhere.(this is just a summary, and there are a couple catches to it i havnt included)

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by AVRO1
I expected better from you Shadenfreude

I have never flown spits much in the MA.

I like the P51D for dive bombing, mostly because it's the only plane I can hit targets with regularly .

I like the 202, FM2 and Hurri2C for base defense.

I usually fight in the vertical but I just don't conserve my energy well I think.
Or maybe I am just using the wrong planes for it .

Maybe I will give Rolex's squad a chance.

lol apologies, it's just that most people who complain seem to be either Niki or Spit drivers who get irritated when they can't catch someone.

P51 is a very nice ride, try it with 75% fuel and set your guns to 650 feet - take off from a base near the front line and don't go anywhere near the action if you're under 12k or so - engage when you have a clear mental picture of what's going on so that you know pretty much what each plane in the 5000 yard box around you is doing or thinking of doing.

If you want to wing up and try it give me a shout anytime - try the G10 btw - am 30-1 k/d in it this tour - awesome plane.

I'm very average at acm, v.good at gunnery, acm and teamplay - but am quite willing to help if I can.....you have to join Rooks though, even if on a temp basis.

[_Schadenfreude_]

lol should say sa not acm, my acm is so appalling it has to be seen to be believed......