Author Topic: Why?  (Read 1831 times)

Offline ravells

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Why?
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2004, 07:31:47 PM »
storch...well, I think we have more in common..although we don't celebrate it except ocasionally on this BBs.

I'm like you with the ladies. I see good qualities in most people  I meet.

Night! God bless!

Ravs

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Ravells, since you asked
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2004, 07:36:33 PM »
For what it is worth, here is my take on it.

First, I am a conservative moderate. I do not necessarily believe that Europe owes me anything, despite the fact that World War II, which started (officially anyway) in Europe, despite the fact it cost my father his brother. I willingly acknowledge and appreciate that the British, the Russians, some of the French, and many other nations did do a great deal of the fighting and dying.

However, I do not appreciate the fact that a great many Europeans feel it is their place to tell me I should not own firearms, I know nothing of how to fight terrorism, my country should surrender at least a good portion of its sovereignty to the corrupt and shreckless United Nations, that my country is imperialist, that their foreign policy is dramatically superior to ours, and that we have no right to protect our security and national interests.

The U.S.A. has only been around just over 200 years. In that time, the U.S.A. has not once set out to conquer and territorialize/colonize any nation or region. The U.S.A. has not declared war on another nation without first being attacked or at least provoked, with the possible exception of the Spanish American War. Countries in Europe have declared war on the United States at least three or four times.

In any one century, the current one excluded since it is all of 4.5 years old, the major powers of Europe have declared war on each other or any one of a number of nations more than the U.S.A. has been at war in its entire history. There are few continents that at least one or more of the major powers of Europe have not at least tried to conquer and colonialize. Only in the last 50 years of the previous century has the biggest part of Europe been able to maintain anything that remotely resembles peace. The rest of any number of centuries you care to look at they stayed in a constant state of war and just generally attempted to screw the world up to the best of their ability.

And yet, despite all of that, the segment of the population I refer to as yerapeons (pronounced you're a peon) feels it is their duty and obligation to castigate the U.S.A. and criticize it at every turn and every available opportunity.

Basically, I'm sick of it. I've had all of that two faced holier than thou Bravo Sierra I want to hear for the rest of my life. I see no need for me to subject myself or my country to the crap they seem to like. I do not believe in it, I do not like it, and I do not want it. I have no desire to tell every European person I meet in person or on the Internet how they should live their life or run their country. I have no desire to force my opinions or wishes on them. I just want them to shut up and leave me alone and I'll return the favor. And I'd appreciate it if they would come pack up that corrupt garbage scow they call the United Nations and take it to some place like Brussels and start footing the entire bill for it.

I have no problem at all having a polite and friendly discussion with anyone. So long as they don't tell me how to live my life and that sort of thing. My collection of firearms and my right to carry them is none of their business. Nor is my choice of vehicle. it really is that simple. I do not like their political system (I don't really like ours either these days) I do not like their beloved socialist system, and I do not agree with their ideology. They like the way they do things where they live, and I like it here. That's why I live here. And I don't live there. I do plan to visit again. And when I'm there, I won't tell them they should do things my way, I'll just keep my mouth shut about such things and enjoy what I came for.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline ravells

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Why?
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2004, 07:43:48 PM »
(wife screaming for me to come to be so I'll make this brief)

Nobody, least of all me is telling you how to live your life, but what on earth made you think this discussion was about you having the right to bear arms?

Ravs

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Why?
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2004, 07:50:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
(wife screaming for me to come to be so I'll make this brief)

Nobody, least of all me is telling you how to live your life, but what on earth made you think this discussion was about you having the right to bear arms?

Ravs


I didn't. Perhaps you misunderstood. I was merely explaining why many Americans have such diametricly opposed views from Europeans. The right to keep and bear arms was merely one of many points of disagreement, not by any stretch the focal point of the post. Again, perhaps due to my lack of eloquence or brevity, one thing seems to have been what you seem to focus on rather than the differing ideals as a whole. Sorry you missed what I was trying to say.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline ravells

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Why?
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2004, 07:57:18 PM »
Well, I was talking about peace.

Ravs

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why?
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2004, 08:07:54 PM »
Because modern day western Europe is like a teenager trying to establilsh an identity seperate from it's parent and protector, the USA.

It all boils down to that.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2004, 08:09:55 PM by GRUNHERZ »

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Why?
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2004, 08:08:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
Well, I was talking about peace.

Ravs


You asked about venting of spleen etc. and why. You also brought up the Europe - American divide. And you mentioned gun control.

Pardon me for making an effort to answer what I thought were actual questions and talking points, but may actually have been rhetorical. Thought I was providing the polite conversation you desired. Didn't realize this was a Rodney King "Why can't we all just get along" sort of thing. Hell I kinda like you, you seem to be a stand up guy.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline ravells

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Why?
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2004, 08:15:23 PM »
I was actually saying how nice it would be if the conversation did not boil down to a pro/anti gun debate.

perhaps you misread it?

I kinda like you too!

Ravs

ps seriously dead in the wife stakes now

Offline rpm

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Why?
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2004, 08:53:41 PM »
You see Rav, their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them and it will be a perfect world. Ya know, the same idea the Nazi's had...and we saw how well that worked.

To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists, they can not understand that a few wacko's(fundamentalist clerics) are doing the manipulating. You could compare those terrorists in Iraq now to the Michigan Militia, KKK,and Branch Davidians in the US. They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.

Thankfully there are some of us that know the difference.
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Why?
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2004, 08:56:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm371
You see Rav, their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them and it will be a perfect world. Ya know, the same idea the Nazi's had...and we saw how well that worked.

To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists, they can not understand that a few wacko's(fundamentalist clerics) are doing the manipulating. You could compare those terrorists in Iraq now to the Michigan Militia, KKK,and Branch Davidians in the US. They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.

Thankfully there are some of us that know the difference.


:eek:

Offline Steve

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Why?
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2004, 08:57:25 PM »
Quote
their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them


Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.





Quote
To these people ALL islamic's are terrorists,


Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.







Quote
They are acting on the words of their leader/preacher who happens to be a certified whack-job nutcase.


Something we agree on.  So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?
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Offline rpm

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Why?
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2004, 09:07:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.

Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.

Quote
Liberal propaganda lie, don't believe it.

Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.

Quote
Something we agree on.  So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?

If we bomb a mosque full of praying unarmed civilians is that more to your taste? MMMMMM revenge!
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Steve

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Why?
« Reply #57 on: April 24, 2004, 09:35:27 PM »
Quote
Typical Conservative ploy. Any opinion other that theirs is a lie.


You didn't mention an opinion, just falsely gave mine.



Quote
If we bomb a mosque full of praying unarmed civilians is that more to your taste? MMMMMM revenge!



Tell me, when have we done this?   Are you such a twisted mind to believe that this is what conservatives think?
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Offline Steve

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Why?
« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2004, 09:36:16 PM »
Quote
So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?



Answer the question.
Member: Hot Soup Mafia - Cream of Myshroom
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Offline Gnslngr

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Why?
« Reply #59 on: April 24, 2004, 10:20:10 PM »
To Rav

My pastor isnt a wack job he probably agrees with you on the war on terror.  TO denounce religoius  people as wack jobs is highly fascist of you  (OOPS I USED A LIBRAL TACTIC)

secondly.  Name once were the michagain militia hijacked an airplane, blew up an embasy, slit a reporters throat, bombed a military barracks or commited any unprovoked act of violence

Third, when that somone cares more about a criminals right to go to a resort luxury prison than a law abiding citizin's right to own a gun...that offends me.  I dont want to kill that person but I definatly dont want their MINORITY (nothing to do with race just numbers) view point to infringe apon my rights.