Author Topic: Why?  (Read 1730 times)

Offline AKcurly

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Re: Ravells, since you asked
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2004, 08:46:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

The U.S.A. has only been around just over 200 years. In that time, the U.S.A. has not once set out to conquer and territorialize/colonize any nation or region. The U.S.A. has not declared war on another nation without first being attacked or at least provoked, with the possible exception of the Spanish American War. Countries in Europe have declared war on the United States at least three or four times.


Not sure if you are talking about Spain (possible exception,) but one consequence of the Spanish American War was the acquisition of the Philippines.  

Now, Spain had little success in pacifying the Philippines, but we had great success.  Let me quote a few lines from "The Flyboys by James Bradley."

America would cause the deaths of more than 250,000 Filipinos - men, women and children from 1899 to 1902.

The majority of the Filipinos killed by the Americans were civilians.

Anthony Michea of the Third Artillery wrote "We killed every native we met, men, women and children" (in the town of Malabon.)

I want no prisoners one American general ordered.  "I wish you to kill and burn, the more you kill and burn the better it will please me."  Asked for age clarification, the general replied in writing to kill all those above ten years of age.

And finally, most damning, "Americans back home knew what was happening in the Philippines."

So get off your high horse feller, America has done plenty of colonizing and conquering.

BTW, the book is well-researched with cited sources.

curly

Offline lazs2

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Why?
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2004, 08:59:56 AM »
That is considered "plenty" of colonizing to you?   And... leaving kids alive under 10 but killing everyone else seems plain dumb... they might carry a grudge doncha think?

will read the book but are you saying that all those 250,000 killed of which "most" were women and children...  were killed by U.S. soldiers... what?  bayoneting em or maybe just rounding them up and executing them?

I would say that in WWII and even WWI when a town or city was bombed or shelled... that "most" of the casualties were women and children.

lazs

Offline AKcurly

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Why?
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2004, 09:14:39 AM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
That is considered "plenty" of colonizing to you?   And... leaving kids alive under 10 but killing everyone else seems plain dumb... they might carry a grudge doncha think?

will read the book but are you saying that all those 250,000 killed of which "most" were women and children...  were killed by U.S. soldiers... what?  bayoneting em or maybe just rounding them up and executing them?
lazs


I'm not saying anything Lazs - just quoting from "The Flyboys."  But to answer your question concerning women/children, they were killed by American soldiers.  I don't recall a favorite method.  They executed (presumably rifles) many, but definitely "pacified" villages (bayonets.)

The book is fascinating.  The primary story being told is the cannibalism that occured on Chichi Jima by the Japanese.  George Bush Sr. escaped ending up on the menu by a hairs width.

Bush's TBM sustained heavy damage during a bombing run and had to ditch at sea.  As he was paddling along in his raft, the Japanese launched boats to collect him.  He paddled faster. :)   In a few minutes, an American submarine plucked him out of the water before the Japanese boats reached him.

"The Flyboys" spends a lot of time demonizing America military behavior (native americans, philippines primarily.)  He does this because he's about to lay an extremely heavy hit on the Japanese.  If you read the book without proper perspective, you would be tempted to say "why those dirty Japs!"  But he forces you to compare Japanese and American behavior.  It balances out and makes for a fascinating true story.

curly

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2004, 02:42:38 PM »
hmm... just saying.. I can't imagine an official policy that advocated the killing of civilians in more than a collateral way.  I don't particularly believe in killing cities and the civilians im em but it is a pretty much acepted way of war when shelling and bombing are concerned.   I have read on the pacific war tho and at our most brutal we never aproched the cruelty of the japs who were, by the way, the ones who set the tone.

I have also read on the indian wars and the indians were far more brutal than the American soldiers.

I have never heard about the phillipines being so brutal before... I would have thought that some pony tailed academic dunesbury reader would have mentiond these thousands of mai lai's by now tho.

Will check out the book when I have time.   You say it is well documented?   makes things like the A bomb pale.

lazs

Offline AKcurly

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Why?
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2004, 04:14:07 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
hmm... just saying.. I can't imagine an official policy that advocated the killing of civilians in more than a collateral way.

I have also read on the indian wars and the indians were far more brutal than the American soldiers.

I have never heard about the phillipines being so brutal before... I would have thought that some pony tailed academic dunesbury reader would have mentiond these thousands of mai lai's by now tho.

Will check out the book when I have time.   You say it is well documented?   makes things like the A bomb pale.

lazs


Concerning the brutality of the native Americans, my grandparents entered North Texas during the 1880s.  The Comanche wars were really grinding down by then, but the fear of them had not diminished.  My maternal grandfather told me some horrible tales  ... he might have been stretching the truth though. :)

So far as the "pony tailed academic," well Lazs, guess who records this stuff and perpetuates it?   All professions are rich in jerks, including academia.  Why I'll bet you could even name a gun-toting jerk if you wanted to.

The book is indexed with a bibliography and extensive notes referencing the bibliography.

curly

Offline Steve

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Why?
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2004, 04:28:26 PM »
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It is just as right as us killing innocent civilians.



Pure unadulterated BS that I find difficult that even you would believe.  The U.S. is no different than the terroists regarding the targeting of civilians?  Do you believe, in any corner of your mind that the U.S. deliberately targets, even encourages the murder of innocent civilians?   Do you seriously put the U.S. on that same par?

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Steve, I didn't falsely give your opinion, I gave a reply in kind to yours.

Yes you did, you said:  
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their (the conservatives) point is kill everyone that does not agree with them


I'm a conservative, and I know many conservatives and not one of them have this opinion.  As I said, your statement is an outright lie.
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Offline Nilsen

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Why?
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2004, 05:36:06 PM »
Would be great to live on the north or south pole for 6 months.....unless THE THING comes... that is one scary mf

Offline AKcurly

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« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2004, 05:39:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Nilsen
Would be great to live on the north or south pole for 6 months.....unless THE THING comes... that is one scary mf


Quick, Nilsen, who had the role of "The Thing" in its first version ... oh, maybe 1950.

curly

Offline AKcurly

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Why?
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2004, 05:41:15 PM »
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Originally posted by Steve
Do you believe, in any corner of your mind that the U.S. deliberately targets, even encourages the murder of innocent civilians?   Do you seriously put the U.S. on that same par?


Steve, what is the context?  Ever?  Never?

curly

Offline Steve

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« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2004, 05:53:22 PM »
Ever, as a matter of policy.

Targets civilians as the primary target.  Bombing a mosque where terrorists are shooting from, with the possibility that civilians are inside does not count as targeting civilians as . i.e.  ohhh say....  targeting the World Trade Center would.
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Offline Steve

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« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2004, 06:02:09 PM »
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Quick, Nilsen, who had the role of "The Thing" in its first version ... oh, maybe 1950




Fuzzy.. used to know this stuff.  James Arness?
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Offline strk

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Why?
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2004, 06:16:54 PM »
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Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Suck my fish and chips Eurotrash.


good comeback, Costanza :)

Offline AKcurly

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Why?
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2004, 06:45:26 PM »
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Originally posted by Steve
Ever, as a matter of policy.

Targets civilians as the primary target.  Bombing a mosque where terrorists are shooting from, with the possibility that civilians are inside does not count as targeting civilians as . i.e.  ohhh say....  targeting the World Trade Center would.


Sure, I think any liberal or conservative would agree with you.

I just wanted to make sure that you weren't saying that we hadn't deliberately targeted civilian populations in the past, because we have.

curly

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2004, 03:20:23 AM »
have no idea AKcurly. I could pretend to know by googeling first but that would be cheating..................i never cheat :)

Offline AKcurly

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Why?
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2004, 04:07:46 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Steve
Fuzzy.. used to know this stuff.  James Arness?


Yep. :)

curly