Why?

[lazs2]

the captain said it very well for me.

I have no problem getting along with anyone until they try to interfere in my life..  socialism and big government are threats to me.  Most euros have become comfortable with a much higher level of both than I can tolerate.

This is fine but I do not want my country to participate.  I do not want any country to vote on how I live.  This includes the U.N. or some kind of "world court" or "environmental council" .... I want the right to bear arms and low taxes.

I am not angry when we discuss these things but assuming that you will bring me over to the 'more enlightened' euro version of life is where you run into problems... most eros first explain and then plead and then get angry when we don't come around...

there is the propblem.. the problem in most of these "discussions" is from the other end...

also... I find it a little strange all the talk about elections and presidents when the people talking can't even vote and don't know the culture.   It seems pompous.   Many euros seem pompous..."we were making stone axes (and still are in some cases) hundreds of years before your country existed"

It seems to me that most of the animosity comes from the euros who think they know how to run America... what makes this seem so ridiculous to most of us is that what they themselves have is not what the average American wants.

lazs

[rpm]

My pastor isnt a wack job he probably agrees with you on the war on terror. TO denounce religoius people as wack jobs is highly fascist of you (OOPS I USED A LIBRAL TACTIC)

Gunslinger it was not Rav...I made the statement. Get the fingerpointing correct. I did not label ALL religious people as wack jobs...but there are a FEW out there that are stirring up hate. They are interpreting Islamic verse into their own meanings. Islam is fundamentally a religion of peace that has been hijacked. It happens in Christianity as well. Remember the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades? I don't think they were what Jesus had in mind.

secondly. Name once were the michagain militia hijacked an airplane, blew up an embasy, slit a reporters throat, bombed a military barracks or commited any unprovoked act of violence

On the morning of April 19, 1995, Timothy McVeigh parked a rented Ryder truck with explosives in front of the Murrah Federal Building complex in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and, at 9:02am, a massive explosion occurred which sheared the entire north side of the building, killing 168 people.

Third, when that somone cares more about a criminals right to go to a resort luxury prison than a law abiding citizin's right to own a gun...that offends me. I dont want to kill that person but I definatly dont want their MINORITY (nothing to do with race just numbers) view point to infringe apon my rights.

Where did you pull that nugget from? Nevermind I have a pretty good idea. Nobody said anything about Luxury Prisons in this entire thread except you. Also, I believe Christianity is a MINORITY religion...so we should make the MAJORITY conform to us?

Now on to Steve-o:

So if they kill Americans, is it not their fault because they were acting on the words of their leader/preacher?ANSWER THE QUESTION.

It is just as right as us killing innocent civilians. Killing innocent civilians whether they are American, British, Laplanders or Iraqi's is wrong. Have we done it? Sure we have. Will we do it again? You know we will. Will it be "Collateral Damage"? Most likely. I don't think we will intentionally carpet bomb the masses, but there will be those killed by targeting error, POOR INTEL (naa, not the USA!), or just plain itchy trigger fingers. It's an ugly buisness, War. And Steve, I didn't falsely give your opinion, I gave a reply in kind to yours. The last time I checked Non-Republicans and Non-Conservatives were still allowed to have an opinion...or have Bush and Ashcroft outlawed that in the name of "Homeland Security"?

[storch]

I think Euros have an attitude of "look our culture is thousands of years old, yadayadayada" so we know better.  What they fail to realize is that,

1. Bye and large most Americans are Euro-centric. even the "Hispanics" the largest minority in America which are categorized here as separate from white are from cultures that were colonized by Europeans.

2. The people who left Europe for America did so for many a reason.  I believe it was mainly economic or because they were tired of the same Eurochikenshirt I am tired of today.

The United States owes nothing to Europe.

Europe owes much to the United States, especially in the 20th Century.

We have emerged as a the only super power through the superiority of our political system and the co-mingling of the world's genes here.  We are a strong people because of the E Pluribus Unum thing.

There is no member of any race no matter how oppressed here that does not have examples of  members who have succeeded inspite of the odds.  In my town there was a black man, D.A. Dorsey who became a multimillionaire around the turn of the 20th century here in Miami.  He donated so much land for schools, parks and money for civic projects that there are square miles of town where you are always running into his memory.  In those days Miami was very much a southern American town.

When we (the Cubans) arrived here in 1960, Miami was a sleepy winter touristy town where they rolled up the streets and sidewalks at 9:00 pm.  Through the opportunity afforded us by the American system the story of the Cuban people in exile is one of brilliant rapid success.  Peasants from a foreign land were wealthy in a decade through their personal industry within a system that rewards an intelligent, organized work ethic.  I am a naturalized American citizen and I know first hand the advantages of the the American system because I am the beneficiary of the unique equity of that free enterprise system.  My town, Miami, Florida United States of America is a shining beacon to the world pointing to the possibilities which are today embodied in America.

America is strong and will remain strong as long as our political system remains faithfully tied to the ideals of those brilliant, inspired men who conceived of our unique way of governing.  go ahead and start flaming and bring up the slavery issue of 215 years ago.  go ahead and point out the hypocrasy of the those documents.  the fact is that today, the American way is the best way, it's the wisest way, the most equitable way and the place where most of the world's population aspires to come to.
 
I don't hate Euros, hell they are a rich source of comedy and amusement for me.  God bless Euorpe (God knows it needs it)

[lazs2]

yep... we tell the germans that 'our germans are smarter than your germans"  we tell africa that "our blacks are faster than your blacks'  and so on..  most euros have to rely on the same gene pool that got em turned into 3rd world countries in the first place.

lazs

[stegor]

Storch, is that a troll??
Cant believe you are writing things like that in a serious way;)
Oh yes  about comedy and amusement....

To be serious  some people writing here seems to have the need to convince themselves that someone ( why in the hell Europeans??)must  have the need to hate or at lest tease their country.


Sure US have enemies around the world, there's no need to find others where they are not.

Gosh... you ended speaking of  gene  pool (racial superiority??)

The funny thing is that luckily this seems only an exageration showed by people on this BBS.

I mean , I live near Camp Darby US base (Leghorn)
I have many friends between Americans servicing and livin there.
Most part of them and their families have  their house outside the base, so there are strict relations with people here.
I spend some time outside and  inside the base (the civil portion)
with them. Talking with them, even of political arguments, has never come out this sensation of bein teased or diminished or hated by Euros;
and I'm talking of people living their life here, not speaking for what they read , or what they think  things could be  watching some junkTV (n.b. junk TV  may be all over the world not only in US)

Thats why I think on this BBS someone is a litlle bit paranoid (no offence, my limited dictionary dont suggest me another word), and
persuaded to  express correctly the reasons of a country, while is showing only his fears and misleaded sensations


In the end Storch, if you  really think that ,

"America is strong and will remain strong...............the American way is the best way, it's the wisest way, the most equitable way and the place where most of the world's population aspires to come to. "

that's good for you, nothing to object, its normal that someone is proud of/love his country, but why  do you have to add those lines??

"I don't hate Euros, hell they are a rich source of comedy and amusement for me. God bless Euorpe (God knows it needs it)"


That leaves a taste of bitterness that has little reason to show

[_Schadenfreude_]

Learnt anything Ravs?

[rpm]

I think if we just all tried a little harder we could all get along. Peace...it's a wacky concept.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by rpm371
I think if we just all tried a little harder we could all get along. Peace...it's a wacky concept.

Peace will occur when the human race is no more.  Peace is a pipe dream. There will always be warring factions, and there will always be a counter to those warring factions.

[deSelys]

Maybe, but almost every faction thinks they are THE counter...

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by deSelys
Maybe, but almost every faction thinks they are THE counter...

Yep, thus the endless cycle, as well as the endless cycle, generation after generation, of those less intelligent-types thinking "Peace in our time". Won't happen.  Even if everyone was an optimist and a pacifist, there'd be some ******* that would go psycho...

Best to have children or save the whales, Peace is impossible.

[lada]

Originally posted by ravells
From when I first saw posts at the O'club, there has been this Euro/American divide.

I find this pretty odd, because the Americans I meet in real life are pretry much like us and there are nothing like the hatred that is exhibited from time to time on this board. In fact quite the contrary, we get on really well.

I would like to think that this whole Euro/American thing started awhile ago and has just been perpetuated from post to post by the few.

It's just bizarre that in virtually every sphere of life we are pretty much friends but when it comes to this small corner of a BBS we dwell upon our diffrences.

If we'd all met in a pub we'd have a good chat and be polite to each other. So why is so much spleen vented here?

It would be so nice for once, if a topical conversation didn't boil down into a pro/anti gun control debate or a difference about the details of our differences rather than the broad agreement we have.

Ravs

well American that you and i meet arent so, coz they are probably a bit more cosmopolit and they were at least once abroad, so they have some basic overview.

Somehow some people here belive to live in the only country with hot water during the winter time.

[ravells]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Learnt anything Ravs?

On this BBS?  Much more than I thought I would. The people who have made re-examine my values most are Lasz and Miko.

In this thread? When I first made the post, I was thinking in terms of certain 'black holes' that threads grativate to (very often regardless of what the topic is about). The 'black holes' being: Euro/American difference, Gun Control, Conservative vs. Liberal in the main. Once the threads get sucked in there, the script becomes very predictable.  I don't know how these 'black holes' got started, but they seem so well worn now that they almost set the tone of the destination of many a thread. This is why I like it when, say, Rip occasionally posts pics of family holidays or Nuke of the latest model he's building - they seem black hole proof.

IMO BBS threads are less like real life conversations and more like film or drama, I think - the more confrontational they are and the more extreme they are, the more entertaining they can be to read but they start losing touch with reality. I think this is partly because you're not stainding in the same room as the people you are talking to, so you can adopt a level of behaviour you wouldn't otherwise adopt in real life.

Ravs

p.s. thank you for your replies, everyone.

[lazs2]

rav.. people on this board who have met me in person will tell you that I am even worse in the same room standing next to you.

I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.

lazs

[Curval]

Originally posted by lazs2
I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.

lazs

lol...and the pot is stirred one more time.

[CyranoAH]

Originally posted by lazs2
rav.. people on this board who have met me in person will tell you that I am even worse in the same room standing next to you.

I think a lot of the animosity comes from the fact that euros don't bathe regularly.

lazs

Yeah but we smell better than you (person) after a shower.

The more I read from you the more I like you Lazs

Daniel