Author Topic: Wich country sunk the first japanese warship  (Read 1334 times)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2004, 03:23:57 PM »
Err math it was the P38 who made the difference.

Offline GScholz

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2004, 05:40:13 PM »
No, I'd say the Hellcat was the war-winning plane in the PTO. It was instrumental in achieving air superiority in the long "island-hopping" campaign that ended up on the doorstep of Japan herself. IMHO the Hellcat was the all-round best fighter of WWII in the PTO.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2004, 08:24:56 AM »
call it best carrier based.

but the p38 already made its shockin appearance before the hellcat came
oh and
usa topscoring aces proofed what was best there
;)

Offline MJHerman

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2004, 09:05:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
call it best carrier based.

but the p38 already made its shockin appearance before the hellcat came
oh and
usa topscoring aces proofed what was best there
;)


I don't know if that is the right analysis since David McCampbell scored 34 in his Hellcat while Bong had 40 in his P-38.  So does that mean that the 38 was only "6 better" than the F6F?  ;)

Offline BUG_EAF322

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2004, 01:40:53 PM »
6 plus the 38 from nr 2 ace

about 44 better

;)

Offline Rafe35

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2004, 06:51:51 PM »
The Grumman F6F 'Hellcat" or "Aces Maker" are pretty much excellent job for killing alot Japanese fighter/bomber in World War II and America's all-time champion with 307 pilots credited with five or more kills in type, also by comparison, North American's P-51 "Mustang" produced some 275+ USAAF Aces.  

But the bad news that there were relatively heavy losses among F6F pilots.  Throughout the war, combat-related pilot losses totalled some 450 aviators, including 20 Hellcat Aces.

I think that Grumman F6F/Vought F4U are best for US Marines Corps/Navy and Lockheed P-38/North American P-51 also best for only USAAF.

Rafe
Rafe35
Former member of VF-17 "Jolly Rogers"

Offline MiloMorai

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2004, 07:57:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
After mid 43 the Uboat menace was effectively neutered, prior to that it did cause situations to be very dire indeed... hence overall war stats are not a good indicator of the success of the German Uboat campaign to begin with.



Total Net Tonnage Entering with Cargo/Entering in Ballast (Monthly Average in thousands of tons)

1939 - 4,829/1,854
1940 - 2,743/728
1941 - 2,009/115
1942 - 1,768/272
1943 - 2,265/285
1944 - 2,666/2,078
1945 - 2,412/2,224

British flagged ships entering UK ports(Monthly Average in thousands of tons)

1939 - 2,903/876
1940 - 2,110/452
1941 - 1,467/92
1942 - 1,176/175
1943 - 1,201/195
1944 - 1,345/930
1945 - 1,527/1,206

Average Monthly British Flag Vessels Lost to All Causes from Enemy Action(in thousands of gross tons)

1939 (Sep-Dec) - 107.6
1940 - 203.9
1941 - 238.65
1942 - 287.9
1943 - 126.8
1944 - 40.8
1945 (Jan-May) - 38.1

Weight of imports thousands of tons (unspecified, but probably in long tons)

food-general supplies-munitions & misc-petroleum

 1939 (Sep-Dec) - 5,852/6,936/353/3,093
1940 - 19,298/22,051/1,011/12,453
1941 - 14,654/15,046/778/13,603
1942 - 10,606/11,505/780/10,710
1943 - 11,525/12,834/2,013/15,118
1944* - 10,996/11,753/2,398/20,532
1945 (Jan-May) - 3,517/4,592/734/7,828
« Last Edit: May 01, 2004, 07:59:57 AM by MiloMorai »

Offline Widewing

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Wich country sunk the first japanese warship
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2004, 09:41:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rafe35
The Grumman F6F 'Hellcat" or "Aces Maker" are pretty much excellent job for killing alot Japanese fighter/bomber in World War II and America's all-time champion with 307 pilots credited with five or more kills in type, also by comparison, North American's P-51 "Mustang" produced some 275+ USAAF Aces.  

But the bad news that there were relatively heavy losses among F6F pilots.  Throughout the war, combat-related pilot losses totalled some 450 aviators, including 20 Hellcat Aces.

I think that Grumman F6F/Vought F4U are best for US Marines Corps/Navy and Lockheed P-38/North American P-51 also best for only USAAF.

Rafe


It seems you are adding in losses to triple A to your Hellcat totals. Only 270 F6Fs were lost to enemy aircraft during WWII. In exchange Hellcats are credited with shooting down 5,203 Japanese aircraft. That's more than three times the the total shot down by P-38s (1,702), and 1,496 more than the total shot down by all USAAF fighters combined (3,703).

To the Hellcat's 5,203 kills, you can add 2,140 by F4Us and 1,006 by Wildcats. This totals to 8,349 air to air kills (thousands more destroyed on the ground to boot), or 4,642 more than the all USAAF fighters.

Another interesting Navy statistic: When escorted by F6Fs, only 42 Navy Torpedo bombers and Dive bombers are known to have been lost to Japanese fighters. One can can speculate that B-29 crews would have wished that they were that well protected by their P-51 escorts.

P-38s dominated their corner of the Pacific war (SWPA), but had far less impact on the war's outcome than did the F6F.

By the way, McCampbell obtained his 34 kills during a single deployment on the Essex, but Bong needed two tours to reach 40.  Bong got his first kill on December 27th, 1942. He shots down his 34th on November 10th, 1944. His 40th came on December 16th, 1944, almost two years after his first. McCampbell's VF-15 first saw combat in late June of 1944, and he finished his single tour in late November of 1944, just 5 months.

Furthermore, McCampbell holds the absolute Allied record for the most kills in a single sortie, 7 Zeros and 2 Ki-43s. He also was credited with two probables of Zeros seen spinning down on fire, but not actually seen to hit the water. It is very likely that McCampbell actually shot down 11 fighters that day. His wingman killed another 6. This is also the most kills scored by a pair of Allied pilots during a single sortie. 15 kills, 2 probables and 2 damaged.

But wait, there's another record McCampbell holds. He shot down 34 in air to air combat, and is credited with 21 more destroyed on the ground. This total is far in excess of any combined score in the ETO. Add to that 9 probables and 5 damaged. McCampbell and his Hellcat were the single most destructive combination in all of the various western air forces.

My regards,

Widewing
« Last Edit: May 01, 2004, 10:11:14 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.