Author Topic: Whats up with gunnery ballistics?  (Read 1394 times)

Offline miko2d

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2000, 11:51:00 AM »
 Seems to me the realism caught up with us. with fixed FM, an enemy can pull more G's requiring more lead and no icons to help aiming under the nose.
 That matches well with RL where at least 80% of the kills were surprise kills - tracking shots against a non-evading target that did not even know the combat has been initiated.

 The saying was "lose sight-lose fight", not "get in his forward hemisphere and die". Remember, that even the easier snapshots we enjoyed until recently were possible mainly to the laser rangefinder (currently also invisible under the cowling...)

 According to the anecdotal evidence, evasion was relativelly easy against a single enemy. It was his wingie that nailed your careless ass.
 I am sure that most of that 20% of "non-surprise" kills were probably still surprise to the victim because of that.

 HTC could dumb the game to make snapshots viable (ransparent cowling, etc.).
 HTC could smarten the game to make surprise attacks more viable (reduce icons/inflight radar).
 We could resort to the RL wingmen tactics. That would be the best solution IMO. It is not possible to outmaneuver two enemies if they know what they are doing. One guy makes you lose your energy/SA evading and then another one goes for the kill. That is why T&B planes gave way to B&Z planes.
 You can outrun multiple enemies no worse then you can a single guy.

miko

Offline Fishu

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2000, 11:52:00 AM »
Oh my god.. they can't hit..
I do hit fine even without tracers  

Hangtime, better go back to train your gunnery.

Offline Pongo

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2000, 11:55:00 AM »
Issue is that even a clean shot against a manuvering target misses. Not that you cant bring the guns to bear.
Gyrations of the target should be irellevent if the rounds are passing through his airspace. That is not the case.
Manix.
Thats perfect.

Offline AKDejaVu

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2000, 01:24:00 PM »
I found that my gunnery improved when I went from the C-Hog to the D-Hog.  It improved drastically.

AKDejaVu

Offline Yeager

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2000, 01:53:00 PM »
Hangtime,

I dont know if anything in the gun modeling changed....perhaps it has, maybe gravity is pulling rounds down sooner?  What has reaaly screwed me over is no longer being able to predict the maneovering con hidden by the cowling.  Good thing is, it works for me as well as against me.

Im still trying....

Yeager

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Ice

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2000, 03:13:00 PM »
Same here Hang....Mine used to be 14 to 18 range...now its 3-6...yikes!


Gunnery is not good for me....I figured I'de just keep on keepin on until I get better and figure it out.

Setting convergence as suggested above may be the fix...gonna try it tonite. I have always set my convergence at 250...275...300 in the 51...gonna move it out to 500 and see if this helps.

Out!

Offline Soda

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2000, 03:28:00 PM »
I just think everyone should fly nice and level for me so I can get a really good shot in.... if you're really nice you'd fly a C47 too.  Sorta like a drone for the MA.

Soda

Offline Hangtime

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2000, 04:59:00 PM »
Thanks guys.. I appreciate the feedback!

The diversity of the responses, measured against what I know of their flying styles, gives me some clue as to the culprit.. the B&Z crowd is un-affected. The T&B types are cursing..  

I reject the icon under the canopy bit.. I don't expect to get those shots; have given up even squeezing the trigger till I have the subject in view. The problem is certainly lead realated.. not enuff; higher g's; so add more lead. This puts the guy under the nose.. no shot.

WHY IN HELL DO I NEED 3 PLANE LENGHTS OF LEAD AGAINST A TARGET 175 YARDS AWAY, MANUVERING IN PLANE WITH ME? My screen wont display a FOV that large! This can't be right! Cripes; everything I've ever read states that at those ranges; with the velocity of the .50 round, that that much lead is not necessary.. in fact; hardly ANY lead should be necessary. As it is now,
if there is any 'g' loading on the gun platform; it's a useless shot.

The 'higher speed, more lead in this version' noise don't wash fully clean IMO; simply because at the speeds I'm turning and firing at are just as damn slow as they were in 1.03. A stall turn deflection snapshot at 175 yards going 140mph SHOULD be the same now as it was in 1.03. It ain't!

Also a classic new miss for me is that 'he's hanging on the prop trying to get over the top' shot. He's dead in space.. pretty much. I'm commin up the ramp under him; he's pinned in my sights at 200 yards. No significant 'g's on me; I've unloaded; and am hanging too. He's parked. Lay the pipper on and hose him.... nothin. I'm watchin the tracers reach out.. run through him.. nothin.

IS MY MACHINE THE PROBLEM????

How could it be??? Off line; that shot works. In fact; I can't seem to miss off line. In H2H arena; that shot works. On line; in the arena; the shot's a bust.

I know.. I was there when HT mentioned wind. we talked about the lead, we talked about the snapshots being useless; and we talked about differences in g loads with the new rev; and we talked about higher speeds. After 350+ sorties and 425+ kills; I'm sayin something still ain't right. Yes; I accept and am aware that gunnery per se was not changed with this update.

So what changed that explains the misses at point blank range? What explains the insane leads required at stall turn speeds? What explains the massive reduction in the ability to land a zero angle zero g shot against a fixed point target?

I dunno! Hints please.. and no icon noise; and please; spare me the higher speed, more lead noise too. I've adjusted.. the simple tracking shots work fine; usually.

System.. 466 Celeron. 128 megVram. Viper 770 w/32 meg. Driver version 4.11.01.0402 Win98 OS. DX7a drivers installed. Running in 1024x768, 32 bit; hi rez tex package installed. Frames average 35fpm in flight at 20k. (drops to 22-28 in single combat; less near fields or in multiples)

I'm wondering if the guys that arn't seeing a significant diffrence in gunnery are also set up on high end machines... ??

Hang  (off to check fer new DX driversa and new refrence drivers for the Viper)


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...at home, or abroad.

Offline SKurj

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2000, 05:42:00 PM »
V-sync off?

SKurj

Offline Hangtime

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2000, 06:02:00 PM »
Nope. Should it be?

Found new refrence 'detonator 3' drivers from nvidia. I've loaded em up; will give em a try.

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline 214thCavalier

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2000, 08:08:00 PM »
Hang using a 1 Gig AMd and Geforce 256 DDR here and seem to be suffering terribly in the gunnery.
Tour 7 was over 8%
Tour 8 was over 6%
And whats really seriously got me annoyed today is Tour 9 so far 2%
For me i have more chance of hitting the enemy with deflection shots if not my only chance for some reason, and i do prefer TnB to BnZ but employ both to some extent.
If i saddled up on the 6 of an enemy during tour 8 i could waste a complete ammo load trying to hit stupidly jinking, jerking, flicking and sometimes just plain disappearing targets and i will not open fire above 300.
Also like you its not the missing icon thats causing this i can live with that and i am well aware of how to lead a target etc. Tonight for example on the 6 of a blind 51 perfect line up 300 distance fire and no problemo for him cos i MISSED !
Shortly after when i removed his complete wing and saw it fall... No wait whats this his damn wing has regrown in about 5 seconds flat and he runs away as happy as can be !
Now i know this could easily be a bad conn night for me and I have to keep trying but much more of this and it will be hard to convince myself to keep paying for a game that i really love to play.

Offline sax

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2000, 09:07:00 PM »
Don't know about any conspiracy, but HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better. I used to be medium shooter, now i suck.
Hang is on to something. Watch your back.

AKSeaWulfe

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2000, 09:33:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by sax:
Don't know about any conspiracy, but HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better. I used to be medium shooter, now i suck.
Hang is on to something. Watch your back.

Interesting. Very interesting. Someone thinks the gunnery has changed and this guy jumps in from left field "...HT's kills have gone up in 1.04. Looks like somethings changed or he just got better."

Yeah, something did change smart guy.. the flight model. Everyone's K/D has gone up with this new flight model because it's HARDER to kill someone when they can jinx around the sky with a lower E loss.

Some people were born with brains, others weren't meant to have one.

EDIT:: My hit % for Tour9 so far using an Fw-190A5 with the two cannon load out: 0.0874.
Hit % for Tour8 using the pony and 109F4 w/gondolas: 0.0809. Hit % for Tour7: 0.0777.

-SW

[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 10-03-2000).]

Offline Hangtime

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2000, 10:15:00 PM »
Nope it ain't the vid drivers. The det3 release locks up in the sim.. back to the diamond drivers.

Gonna try movin my convergence out to 350 from 275.. tho I don't usually squirt at anything that far away.

Gonna have to be a sniper I guess.. hang back and hose...  

Hang

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Fatty

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Whats up with gunnery ballistics?
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2000, 10:34:00 PM »
I've found thru testing that when the bullets hit the target they do more damage.  I'll need to look at it more before I can say anything conclusive though.

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