Author Topic: Why America hates rest of the world (Read 2352 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #75 on:** May 07, 2004, 09:56:21 AM »

I am right sandie... the patriot act is overreacting and a little of the old self perpetuating burocracy thing at work... more people more power more funding...

Overreacting to it and voting in democrats is a very bad way to cure..... overreacting.

lazs

Curval · « **Reply #76 on:** May 07, 2004, 10:10:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
I believe America is about as free a society as there is today.

In what ways are you "free'er" than say Monaco, Lichtenstein, or any other European country inhabitants?

I'm not just being argumentative here....frankly there is always a chest pounding "We are Free" argument to suggest why the US is "better" than European countries.

The only "more free" issue that I can see relates to gun ownership.

vorticon · « **Reply #77 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:09:23 AM »

i fail to see how being told what you can do is any more acceptable than being told what you cannot.

beet1e · « **Reply #78 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:22:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
beet1e, we still own said map. get used to it.

...but the rest of the world owns the wall it hangs from.

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #79 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:24:05 AM »

Is said map that we own a cloth map or is it laminated?

ravells · « **Reply #80 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:38:18 AM »

I think this is the map that Storch is talking about

Ravs

Nilsen · « **Reply #81 on:** May 07, 2004, 11:57:23 AM »

OMG ROFL

Curval · « **Reply #82 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:05:07 PM »

I'm still waiting for a response to my question above.....anyone?

ravells · « **Reply #83 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:09:36 PM »

I think its easier to get hold of government documents in the US, Curval - Freedom of Information there is less curtailed than it is here.

Also, I think that their press are not as restricted when it comes to privacy of individuals. I.e. their balance of 'freedom of expression' against 'right to privacy' is weighted more to the 'freedom of expression' side than it is in Europe.

That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there must be more. And cases where the 'freedoms' in Europe exceed those of the US as well.

Ravs

lazs2 · « **Reply #84 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:18:23 PM »

I totally agree with the map that Bush suppossedlly drew.

curval... free trade and economic freedom translate into a lot of freedom here. Obviously a high standard of living works out to mean "freedom" in a sense. Most things cost less here. A person is probly free'er to pursue a bussiness here. We have less taxation than most. We have a constitution that limits governments powers.

I will admit that the trend in the U.S. is away from the 1st and 2nd amendments these days but that is a bad thing not a good one.

lazs

Nilsen · « **Reply #85 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:21:05 PM »

True GS... i read in VG before xmas that norway has the highest ammount of legal guns in private ownership per person in the world.

Curval · « **Reply #86 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:22:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by ravells
I think its easier to get hold of government documents in the US, Curval - Freedom of Information there is less curtailed than it is here.

Also, I think that their press are not as restricted when it comes to privacy of individuals. I.e. their balance of 'freedom of expression' against 'right to privacy' is weighted more to the 'freedom of expression' side than it is in Europe.

That's all I can think of, but I'm sure there must be more. And cases where the 'freedoms' in Europe exceed those of the US as well.

Ravs

Yes Ravs, but clearly those items are real streches when it comes to determining who is more "free".

On the German autobaun you can, and should, drive far faster than would could ever drive in ANY state in the US. Given how much emphasis and value Americans put on their automobiles then Germany far surpasses the freedom afforded to Americans in this regard.

But..in every single US/European debate the subject of freedom always comes up. Silliness like "you are subjects, we are citizens" is written in an effort to prop up American freedomaniacs egos...yet when you break it down to basics we are all as free as each other.

It is really very silly indeed.

Curval · « **Reply #87 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:26:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
curval... free trade and economic freedom translate into a lot of freedom here. Obviously a high standard of living works out to mean "freedom" in a sense. Most things cost less here. A person is probly free'er to pursue a bussiness here. We have less taxation than most. We have a constitution that limits governments powers.

By all rights then, with the exception of stuff costing less (we have to import all consumable goods) Bermuda is even freer than the US....and we are a colony of Britain.

(Yes, we have our own Constitution here).

StabbyTheIcePic · « **Reply #88 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:26:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Yes Ravs, but clearly those items are real streches when it comes to determining who is more "free".

On the German autobaun you can, and should, drive far faster than would could ever drive in ANY state in the US. Given how much emphasis and value Americans put on their automobiles then Germany far surpasses the freedom afforded to Americans in this regard.

But..in every single US/European debate the subject of freedom always comes up. Silliness like "you are subjects, we are citizens" is written in an effort to prop up American freedomaniacs egos...yet when you break it down to basics we are all as free as each other.

It is really very silly indeed.

Do Not forget the crazy liquor laws in America. NEVAR FORGET!

lazs2 · « **Reply #89 on:** May 07, 2004, 12:41:28 PM »

curval... no... if you have to import everything and if it all costs more then you don't have economic freedom for the average person... you have restrictions on most things... you can't drive most motorcycles or cars (even if there were someplace to drive) you can't own firearms and.... you are a tiny little island that is not really representative. You are basicly an oasis from some of the more restrictive U.K and U.S. tax laws. Sorta like criminals used to be able to make it to a church and cry safe.

While pleasant for most... I would not want to live on an island. If you take the rest of the U.K tho... you will find high taxes and expesive goods and many banned items... you have no choices for your medical and pay to watch your own televisions with programing by the government.

lazs