$2.61/gal

[strk]

Toad, let me ask you this.  Would you be willing to concede that the American way of health care through private insurance might not be the best way to approach health care?  I understand that the Canadian/Eurpoean models you do not agree with.  But what about another method.

Would you be willing to say that it should be a national goal that health care be provided to all americans who need it?   we should provide that care in the most humane and efficient way possible?

And what if it really is the case that the money we spend as a nation already could pay for all the health care costs but for the insurance companies taking their cut, hundreds of millions out of the system, that leave 40 millions with no coverage who could have been covered.  Do you think that the insurance companies should be guaranteed their millions even if it meant 40 million without health care?

And what do you think about Howard Dean's approach in Vermont, where they increased coverage using a number of different approaches and using the legal "machinery" that was largely already in place instead of a sweeping socialization or other drastic measure.  Vermont achieved extremely high rates of insureds, way above the national average, and virtualy all of Vermont's children have insurance.  THe only ones who don't have simly not applied for it yet.  Vermont did this while balancing the state budget.

[Toad]

First is by Nuke, not me.

Second is a reply to your measurement which I quoted above.

So, "You did it first!"

[Scootter]

Originally posted by rpm371
Diesel is primarily a waste product of gas production. Until the introduction of diesel cars in the US in the mid 70 it was 50-60% less than 87 gasoline at the pump. After the introduction of diesel cars the price rose to 100-120% of 87 gasoline.

This would not be that big of a deal if it only affected those diesel cars. The problem is it affects transportation of goods. 18 wheelers average around 8mpg. When the cost of transporting goes up, it eventually makes it's way to the shelf price of goods. The trucker is not the one making the profit from the increase.

I say the overall pump price of gas is at least 50% higher than it should be simply because of oil company manipulation. Putting groups of refineries offline at the same time for overhaul instead of a staggered shedule creates a false shortage. The Energy Department has done NOTHING to stop this practice.

While the eyes of the nation have been focused on "The War on Terror" we have been letting the energy industry run wild. We need to take a look at the DOE and find out why this is being allowed to happen.

Not true, gas was for many years a dangerous by product of oil refining and was burned off at the plants.

Diesel engines have been around for nearly 30 years longer then gas engines and gas engines were developed as a cheep way to consume gas in a lightweight package.

Diesel has 17% more energy per pound and the engines that use it are much more efficient for many reasons, 2x higher compression ratios, little to no pumping losses, and much leaner combustion at low speeds are but a few.

I drive a 7300 pound 4X4 auto trans. with 325 hp and 600 pounds feet of torque that gets 19 mpg highway and 16 city, I am currently paying 1.73 a gal for #2 Diesel.

[Toad]

Strk, like everything else, it's not an issue that is easily generalized.

For example, how much of our current health care costs are driven by our "somebody has to pay" legal system in which attorneys get huge percentages of the settlements? A system where "shot in the dark" lawsuits are common because the hope is the target will settle rather than litigate? In short, what piece of the action are the trial lawyers getting? I see you hammering those evil insurance companies, but not the Association of Trial Lawyers of America.

This is one huge lobbying machine. They're rabidly against tort reform. Who do they contribute to the most in order to achieve their goals?



You're after the insurance companies and rightfully so. It is unconscionable what they pay a CEO of HMO because the ones that make them most are the ones most successful at minimizing client benefits. Not to mention the other dirty tricks they pull, like authorizing medications based on pharmaceutical company kickbacks. They need their house cleaned.

But what's your position on tort reform? That probably has as much to do with health care costs here as anything the insurance companies do.

I'm not really deeply informed on Vermont's health care but could you read this article and tell me of any inaccuracies you find?

According to the Census Bureau, 9.5 percent of Vermont's population lacked insurance when Dean assumed office in 1991. About 9.7 percent lacked coverage at the end of his term (average of 1999-2001). Over the Dean years, Vermont fell from second to tenth in share of population with total health coverage. Such minute differences could easily be statistical noise, but if Dean claims to be the man who did something about the uninsured in Vermont, it seems there wasn't much of a problem to begin with...

...What does Vermont health care look like today? It's a mixed picture. The percentage of insured citizens is relatively high, but so are Medicaid rolls. It's not clear that Vermonters can sustain the state government's spending. Projections suggest that in Vermont Medicaid will run a $98 million deficit by 2008. And insurance premiums are sky high. "I'm paying a lot and getting little choice," a self-employed Burlington resident told me. He wasn't kidding: To cover his wife and himself, he pays $5,000 a year for a plan with a $1,000 deductible. Because most carriers have left the state, there are only a few insurance companies left in business.

Vermont's Badly Managed Care

[Toad]

Originally posted by GScholz
Now can we dispense with this genetelia measuring contest?

Originally posted by GScholz (Mine is bigger, so THERE!)

Physician, heal thyself.

[StSanta]

Originally posted by Toad
LOL, get St. Santa to explain to you how he finally realized how much it costs in YOUR part of the world.

Here's a clue.. TANSTAAFL

Hm, I've been looking at figures again Toad. Turns out we pay less of our BNP percentage wise than does the US - but we still manage universal health care.

The reason is quite simple: our administrative costs are much lower than in the US.

There are waiting lists for non critical operations though. Of course, private hospitals are available for those who wish to use them.

Other than that, I'll go back to watching Storch do his Euro-bashing thing. It's entertaining. Oh, and JG-54 rocks .

Jump prices haven't gone up despite the increase in fuel prices - our club just lowered them.  $17 for 13 000 feet. Even beats the standard US price .

Jet-A1 for the turbines however...well, it smells so nicely that it's worth the extra cost. And it's great for kickstarting bonfires.

[Toad]

So you've decided your parents are taxed fairly now?

And you're cool with the money you get as a student versus what your "neighbors" are making now?

[storch]

Strk the health care issue certainly needs to be addressed.  Look at it from another angle.

I have two friends that are physicians and one dentist.  These guys all went to school forever and at great expense.  

One works for the County Hospital and the VA he is a surgeon.  He chose this path because he is a liberal and feels like he's giving, blah blah blah.  Also he pays no malpractice insurance.  Apparently if you die from a bad proceedure in the federal hospital/County Hospital there is no one you can sue.

The other is a private practice cardiologist, he pays IIRC approximately $350,000.00 a year for his malpractice insurance.  That means that his patients are paying for that.

If we are to have a sensible and affordable health care system here in the US. it must begin with tort reform.

Both of these guys are in economic parity.  The guy that makes the most money and has the most free time is the dentist, go figure.

He has six practices utilizes recently licensed grads to do the lion's share his work and accepts no insurance work at all.  He also pays no malpractice, you sign a waiver, some sort of hold harmless document.  They perform first rate work at half the cost of what others charge.  a root canal with the crown is around $1500.00.  I just recently had one done and he charged me half that amount.

It seems that if we think outside of the box a bit there are sensible solutions to the healthcare situation in the US.

The European and Canadian model started out as a marvel.  But as the equipment and the facilities aged and there was no capital to upgrade they have sadly fallen behind and the quality of the service has suffered.  It's just hard to beat free enterprise.  I want whom ever is treating me for whatever to be happy and successful in their work.  I want them to make lots of money also.

[Toad]

Let's see.

Nuke makes a rather unnecessary, somewhat rude comment.

You reply with a rather unnecessary, somewhat rude comment.

I mirror your unnecessary, somewhat rude comment.

You feel it's perfectly alright for you to mirror Nuke's unnecessary, somewhat rude comment.

You feel it's simply terrible if anyone mirrors your unnecessary, somewhat rude comment.

Got it. Thanks.

As to sodomy and advanced age, well, I'll have to defer to your undoubtedly vast interest, expertise and experience in sodomy.  I have no experience in the matter whatsoever.























Isn't mirroring fun?

[Staga]

Originally posted by storch

The European and Canadian model started out as a marvel.  But as the equipment and the facilities aged and there was no capital to upgrade they have sadly fallen behind and the quality of the service has suffered.

How do you know Canadian and Europen dentists are having/using aged equipments ?

[lada]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well, I don't presume to speak for YOUR military Lada.

i only saying that regarding military, you can not be never sure

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well, I don't presume to speak for YOUR military Lada.

well, you did include all of Europe when you mentioned military strength. I didn't know Europe had a cohesive military under one command.

When I said that the US system funds the most powerful military on earth, I meant to make a point about our system .

We have the best of almost everything you can imagine. We have world class: military, heathcare, science, research, technology, universities, space programs, and too many other things to list PLUS low cost of living and HIGH standard of living. Our system funds all of those, plus we get low cost of living and lower taxes than most of you.

 We also  do not have to depend on another nation to defend ourselves and protect our way of life, unlike a lot of countries that enjoy "free" healthcare. Ours system must be doing okay.

[NUKE]

Gsholz, the point is that the US system has given us all that we need and more. We live well, are not beholden to anyone for our safety, we have low taxes, high standard of living, best healthcare in the world and are taxed less than most.

We are not the most populous nor the largest country either, but  our system has provided us with everything we need to protect our lifestyle and our standard of living.

Also, you can't have it both ways when you state that "we" fund the European military. There is no Eurpean military.

America is not bound by any other power, your country is dependent on others for it's very existance.

[txmx]

Our space program.
Well one question has anyone else been to the moon?

Is anyone else sending probes to mars?
And most of the technology the russians are using they stold from us anyway LOL.

You guys are digging a giant hole for yourselves .
You simply will not win this argument gentlemen as America like us or not really is the BIG dog on this rock right now.
So go have another beer and keep on secretly wishing you where an American!:aok

[NUKE]

Originally posted by GScholz


Are you deliberately trying to be dumb?

Please explain what you mean and I will answer you.