Author Topic: Republican Flips and Flops  (Read 1688 times)

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2004, 03:45:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
While we're at it, somebody 'splain to me why I see Democratic Congressmen ranting about the "Bush Prescription Plan for Seniors".

I'm cornfused.

I thought just about everyone agreed we need to help our Seniors with prescriptions. Seems I heard it touted as a goal of the Dems for years, with them blaming the Reps for not getting it done.

Then the Reps try to get it done and the Dems opposed it. It finally passed but somehow that's a bad thing.

All agree that it isn't perfect but it has to be better than what the Seniors had before which is basically nothing.

So, 'splain this all please. I admit I didn't follow it too closely at the time. Just seems odd to see a Democratic Congressman on the tube railing against prescription coverage for Seniors.


IIRC

Clintons plan would of combined all govn't agencies giving them 75%  market share effectively controlling the market. They could then call the shots on prices.

Bush's plan kepts them all separate so they lack the leverage and will still pay the same high price for the drugs. They'll just get less for the same amount of money as they would have with Clinton's.

The top drug companies for years have had a 18% return, added the fact they usually spend 6% on R&D and 4% on advertising.

Special interest groups at their best.

Offline MrCoffee

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 934
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2004, 03:56:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
Here is a post at some political forum, not sure about the numbers though  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-rlc/1100848/posts


Great post sixpence.

:aok

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2004, 04:01:08 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
yep... pretty much as I expected.. republicans spend on defense and democrats spend on buerocracy and socialist issues.
lazs


Like education...bad idea to waste money on that nonsense...:rolleyes:

Offline MrLars

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1447
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2004, 04:33:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee
Great post sixpence.

:aok


Yeah, great source...the far, far right militants that post there are some of the most disgusting republicans that infest this planet....but don't take my word for it, go read the forum for yourselves, it'll make any person with an ounce of humility or just an active conscience come away with a feeling of the possibility that forced sterilization isn't such a bad idea when there are idiots like this in the world.

Offline strk

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2004, 04:46:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
Ok.. so show me where the republicans did any spending that would increase debt that was not related to this war?

This war will end but democrat social programs go on forever.

lazs


ever heard of the tax cuts??

ever heard of tax cuts during a war??

the time for full medical insurance coverage is long overdue.  As Howie D pointed out, we are the only industrialized nation without universal health care.  As the Kooch stated - we are already shelling out what it would cost for single payer - and leaving 40 million americans uninsured.  The difference is the profits taken by the insurance companies

so lessee - do we want the insurance companies to make millions or health care coverage for every child, man and woman.  no brainer.  I hate insurance companies
« Last Edit: May 14, 2004, 04:51:30 PM by strk »

Offline Sixpence

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5265
      • http://www.onpoi.net/ah/index.php
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2004, 05:21:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrCoffee
Great post sixpence.

:aok


lol, not my post, I linked because of it being to the right. I should have realized it would be taken that way though.
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2004, 08:42:51 PM »
so strk... you are against tax cuts?   Oh I see... you don't like tax cuts because we should be giving the government more of our money so that they can set up a universal health care system that will work as effieciently as all the other systems they run... like social security?  Schools?

as for schools..  throwing money at em doesn't work... they waste it.. they have no competition... they stay open only 6 months a year and have 87% adminestrators... the buildings and teachers are idle most of the year.   they are the best paid part time workers in the world with the most chiefs and fewest indians.

The schools with the most money thrown at em don't do the best in turning out product.   private schools do much better with much less... private retirement returns far more than forced govenment ones do... What makes you think governmet health care will work any better?

As for that sight... those guys are as radical in their way as the total left winger nut jobs are in theirs.   If you think they dislike bush.... wait till you see what they think of kerry.   they discount all the normal conservative groups like the Wall street journal and Heritage as being "fooled" by Bush while they have the straight scoop... sorry... have to see some unbiased numbers. linked to something official.   I don't believe a thing they said at this point.

I do believe Bush is more of a socialist than I would like but he is night and day better than any democrat we could get.  

strk.... Why should I pay for your healthcare?   Why should I pay social security?   I don't owe you healthcare but that is what you are saying... you want me to pay your way.  pay your own friggin helathcare.

lazs

Offline strk

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2004, 09:16:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so strk... you are against tax cuts?   Oh I see... you don't like tax cuts because we should be giving the government more of our money so that they can set up a universal health care system that will work as effieciently as all the other systems they run... like social security?  Schools?

as for schools..  throwing money at em doesn't work... they waste it.. they have no competition... they stay open only 6 months a year and have 87% adminestrators... the buildings and teachers are idle most of the year.   they are the best paid part time workers in the world with the most chiefs and fewest indians.

The schools with the most money thrown at em don't do the best in turning out product.   private schools do much better with much less... private retirement returns far more than forced govenment ones do... What makes you think governmet health care will work any better?

As for that sight... those guys are as radical in their way as the total left winger nut jobs are in theirs.   If you think they dislike bush.... wait till you see what they think of kerry.   they discount all the normal conservative groups like the Wall street journal and Heritage as being "fooled" by Bush while they have the straight scoop... sorry... have to see some unbiased numbers. linked to something official.   I don't believe a thing they said at this point.

I do believe Bush is more of a socialist than I would like but he is night and day better than any democrat we could get.  

strk.... Why should I pay for your healthcare?   Why should I pay social security?   I don't owe you healthcare but that is what you are saying... you want me to pay your way.  pay your own friggin helathcare.

lazs


no tax cuts for the rich.  is that so hard to understand?

show me one school system that had money thrown at it that did poorly.  

I pay my own healthcare thank you.  I also provide it for my employees.  THe people you are paying are the insurance companies, which take that money as profits.  I say cut out the blood sucking insurance corps.  is that hard to understand?  you like giving them your money?  I would be happy if what I paid could cover some poor child's insurance too and the insurance company doesnt get a cut.  I would even be happy if you got some insurance on it too.

 I am an american and I care about other americans a lot more than I care about the profits of some insurance corp.

If you want to worship the corps then you are free to do so.  Send them some extra money if you love them so much

Offline Sixpence

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5265
      • http://www.onpoi.net/ah/index.php
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2004, 12:12:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by strk
show me one school system that had money thrown at it that did poorly.



Are you kidding? All of them, well, ok, not all of them, but many of them. Throwing money at something does not solve the problem. You create even more waste. It has to be managed well, and that's where we are failing. I see a main problem is finding good teachers, no one wants to teach, and I would imagine it would have something to do with the pay. The saying around here is, "if you can't do anything else, you teach". I'm all for paying teachers well, because you are going to anyway when you decide to send your children to private school to get an education. But the unions don't want to replace teachers with more qualified ones, and to give them credit, they are there to protect their members, but in this case the union is going to have to bend to better the public school system. The public school system needs an overhaul(here anyway), not more money, or at least it needs to be fixed before it gets more money.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2004, 12:18:52 AM by Sixpence »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Red Tail 444

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2497
      • http://www.redtail.org
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2004, 12:47:27 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
so strk... you are against tax cuts?   Oh I see... you don't like tax cuts because we should be giving the government more of our money so that they can set up a universal health care system that will work as effieciently as all the other systems they run... like social security?  Schools?

as for schools..  throwing money at em doesn't work... they waste it.. they have no competition... they stay open only 6 months a year and have 87% adminestrators... the buildings and teachers are idle most of the year.   they are the best paid part time workers in the world with the most chiefs and fewest indians.

The schools with the most money thrown at em don't do the best in turning out product.   private schools do much better with much less... private retirement returns far more than forced govenment ones do... What makes you think governmet health care will work any better?

As for that sight... those guys are as radical in their way as the total left winger nut jobs are in theirs.   If you think they dislike bush.... wait till you see what they think of kerry.   they discount all the normal conservative groups like the Wall street journal and Heritage as being "fooled" by Bush while they have the straight scoop... sorry... have to see some unbiased numbers. linked to something official.   I don't believe a thing they said at this point.

I do believe Bush is more of a socialist than I would like but he is night and day better than any democrat we could get.  
lazs


1. 87% Administrators? where are you getting that data?
1a.While ptivate colleges offer some advantages regarding access to resources, there are some real issues that private colleges face that public colleges don't. There are regulations private colleges don't have to adhere to (rampant drinking, illicit drug use, abortion funds for students...yes they Do have sex in college..and a host of other things they don't need to report to the State that I doubt most would want their kids going to.

Schools stay open 6 months a year? which schools did you attend?

2. Do you have any idea at all what the best teachers do, such as creating lesson plans, parent-teacher conferences, spending personal money on classroom supplies? Yes there are some bad ones, but like any company, nothing is 100% w/o cheaters and those that take advantage of the system. How many of you are using the work computer to post this BBs? case in point...

3. It has to be a real tragedy for you that Bush (hopefully) doesn't share youre racially bigoted and homophobic views.

4. For someone who's as determined to holding on to his money, you don't seem to have any problem w/ Bush being given a blank check to Iraq. Your flip-flopping is making me airsick...or maybe it's just you and your malignant hate mongering making me sick in general...

Offline txmx

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 887
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2004, 12:49:39 AM »
You mean a polotician lied!
Oh say it aint so:rofl

Offline strk

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 776
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2004, 08:09:59 AM »
anyone who thinks that more money won't help schools is listening to Limbaugh, not the facts.  

I defy anyone to tell me how giving LESS money is going to help.

To prove my point, compare the literacy, SAT score and dropout rates per state  with the per-student amount spent in each state.  You will find that schools in MOntana, Alabama and Texas are worse than schools in New York and California.

Now look at the case of Dare County, North Carolina - Outer Banks - they have lots of tourist money coming in, the schools have state of the art class rooms and do very well

Look at Fairfax County, VA - highest paid teachers in the state and the best public schools in the state.

The numbers don't lie folks, the GOP has been trying to sell this idea of destroying the public school system - remember Newt wanted to eradicate the Dept of Education?  I think it goes back to lingering bad feelings about de-segregation, the effort to dumb-down our population, and the ease with which the issue can be played off of the average joe - I mean who didnt hate school?

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2004, 09:30:58 AM »
interesting strk... so you simply want to "tax the rich"  maybe we could eat em too?   You want to leverl the playing field...  sorta... "from each according to his abilities and to each according to his needs" ??   I would take it then you are against cities giving tax breaks to companies and "incentives" so that they will move to that area?

schools... Summer school is not "school" and the teachers get paid that deign to teach it.  The buildings are deserted much of the time in California.

In Los Angeles county the school system has 87% adminestrators.  I know of no other system that is run as basdly as the school system unless it is another socialist program.. provate schools consistently give a better product with less money thrown at em than least funded public school.   We are not talking higher educatin here (yet) this is 1-12.

redtail... so.. not wanting to pay your health health care or keep the public school mess makes me a homophobe and a biggot?   I take it that you are a black gay guy and have somehow taken the cutting off of your government tit as a threat?  If you wish to call that homopbic/biggot.... so be it.

I think it is gay black guys like you tho who are the real biggots... but then... that's just me.  

lazs

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2004, 10:22:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by strk
 The difference is the profits taken by the insurance companies

so lessee - do we want the insurance companies to make millions or health care coverage for every child, man and woman.  no brainer.  I hate insurance companies


Ah, I see now. Under a DEMOCRATIC plan, there would be no profit for insurance companies. NO waste, no stupidity, no fraud no "favor" to "big business cronies. It's only Republican lawmakers that do that stuff. Gotcha.

I guess this is because saintly Democratic politicians are immune from the lobbyists and always put what's really best for the nation ahead of their personal interests.

Thanks, now I understand.

As for the schools, I think you missed one of Lazs basic points. I guess if you throw enough money at something you can get some sort of results. We all probably agree on that.

But there's nothing you can name that the national government does that is truly an efficient use of money. That's just the way it works. Get "big government" involved and there's no true urge to economize. They've got an unending source of income and they know it. So they just don't care. Boston's "big dig" comes to mind.

Now, OTOH, allow Private Enterprise to handle it, inject the profit motive and the risk of LOSING money and  you almost always get a better product.

Crossing an idea from another thread; The search for a workable hydrogen fueled car engine. Which do you think would give us a workable hydrogen engine faster: A $500 billion Federal Government research program or offering a $250 billion prize (tax free of course.. threw that in to stoke your sense of unfairness and outrage) to the first company to meet the standards?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Capt. Pork

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1216
Republican Flips and Flops
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2004, 10:57:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by strk
no tax cuts for the rich.  is that so hard to understand?


Yeah, brilliant... Because a guy who busts his bellybutton for 130k a year only to give half of it away to the government is really in league with a 30million/year CEO.

Most 'rich' people are anything but. They take out loans, go into debt, have kids to feed and put through school and pay mortgages. They don't owe you, or the system, any more percentage points than anyone else.

Higher tax brackets are nothing but symbolic gestures to gain votes. Contratulations.

Get a grip on reality.