Frame Rate Suggestions

[Blammo]

I found a way last night to help with increasing frame rates and decided to make this post.  I woul dlike for anyone that has suggestions to respond here so other people can get this information.  It will help everyone have a much better game experience.

I was having an issue where my frame rates were dropping really bad if I had the Level of Detail and the Object Display Size sliders set to the most detail (all the way to the left).  It had to do with the number of triangles being displayed.  Above 10,000 triangles, the frame rates would drop pretty severely.  By the time I got to about 20,000 triangles, the frame rate was down below 20 fps.  I wanted to keep the detail levels high (except for ground detail range, which I don't really care about), but keeping the first two sliders up was really killing it.  I was also getting a lot of stutter aside from the frame rate drop.

Last night I decided to try something more radical.  I turned off v-sync at the driver level.  This had the effect of allowing my frame rate to shot through the roof (181 fps peak in game).  But in addition my frames never dropped below 41 fps in game (that I saw) after making that change.

I did notice that it makes the tracers coming up from ack look a little different, but that is no loss to me in order to keep my frame rate up.

My specs:
Intel P4 3.0 Ghz
Abit IC7-MAX3 Motherboard
1 GB PC3200 DDR RAM
Asus nVidia FX 5900 Ultra with 256 MB DDR RAM
2 80 GB SATA 150  7200 RPM HDD in a RAID stripped 0 configuration

[Innominate]

It's worth noting that framrate with vsync off is unreliable.  You might be seeing _parts_ of 41 frames, or some frames you might not even see.

Your monitor can display (For the sake of argument, lets say your monitors refresh rate is 75hz) 75 frames per second.  It draws the screen 75 times per second, in regular intervals.  

VSync works by holding the frame untill the monitor is ready to redraw. (So you get a maximum framerate of 75fps)

When you turn vsync off, the game is no longer syncronized with your monitor.  So you'll get things where the monitor is displaying parts of two frames at once(As can be seen by a 'tearing' effect across the screen during fast movement).  Also you'll get frames which are rendered in between redraws, so you never see them.

Lets say a frame takes 75% of the redraw time to draw.  With vsync on, the video board will wait the other 25% of untill the monitor is ready to redraw.  When you turn vsync off, the first thing the monitor will display is 75% of the first frame, as well as 25% of the second on top of the first.  So you get two 'frames' where you would have gotten one with vsync off.  In fast-movement, this will be evidenced by a quite obvious line going across the screen where the two frames meet. You're not actually SEEING any more.  This is somethign of an oversimplification, but the basic idea is there.

Turning vsync off is good for benchmarking.  It will improve your framerate numbers as well as eliminate the 'refresh rate' maximum framerate.  It has no positive impact on what you actually see, and even will cause graphics artifacts.

[Blammo]

I appreciate the lesson in video refresh rates, even if that was not what I was looking for in this thread.  Truth is, it HAS improved my visual experience and HAS had a positive impact.  I do not see stutters and I do not see visual indicaters of FPS drop anymore.  When I was using v-sync, I would have a lot of problems visually (not just watching my FPS).  Now, everything is much smoother and I have not noticed any tearing effect.  I will keep watching for that, though, just in case.

However, since you have knowledge of video issues, do you have any suggestions on how to tweak AH2 and/or your system (video card) to get better in game performance?  That is ultimately what I am looking for.  As set of helpful tips or trick to see what improve the AH2 game experience.

[hitech]

Blammo, turn vsync back on and don't touch anything else. Other than FPS's above refresh rates vysnc should have no effect on frame rates. If it does, there is somthing screwy in you driver, or it dosn't suport triple buffering.


HiTech

[Blammo]

Ok, once again, maybe it is not supposed tohave an effect other than allowing frame rates over refresh rates, but in my case it does.

Regardless, I am still interested in other tweaks.  I can't fly AH2 at 20 FPS.  I am sure other could benefit from getting a few suggestions.

And, not to give you greif, but really, "don't touch anything else"?  OK, Dad!

Honestly, I want to play the game and I am paying to play it.  I have a computer that does not seem to have any other problems (at least that I have identified).  Yet, it does have an issue in AH2 when I try to set the detail levels to what I consider playable.  So, to do that I am going to tweak it...either that or I can play something else, but I prefer to play AH(2).

Just so you know, I tried the other suggestions I've seen:

I uninstalled and upgrade my video drivers to the latest and greatest.

I cleared all of the spyware off my system I could find.

I made sure my Direct X is up to date (9b, I belive).

I completely uninstalled AH2, deleted the old directories and reinstalled.

I have removed all sorts of other other applications and software from my system.

I have done performance test (yes, Dad, with vsync on) and did not find any problems their.

My system, as you can see, if not a hunk of junk, nor is it old.

So, Dad...instead of swatting my hands and telling me to leave things alone, how about a few helpful suggestions?  Throw me a bone.  After all, it is still beta so I assume you are still looking for possible issues to fix, right?

Please excuse any sarcasm. I guess I just don't appreciate being told to leave things alone on MY computer.  Especially when I am paying someone else to use their software...and I just want to keep playing.

[Maniac]

So, Dad...instead of swatting my hands and telling me to leave things alone, how about a few helpful suggestions? Throw me a bone. After all, it is still beta so I assume you are still looking for possible issues to fix, right?

Please excuse any sarcasm. I guess I just don't appreciate being told to leave things alone on MY computer. Especially when I am paying someone else to use their software...and I just want to keep playing.

This whas a bit of a knee jerk response from you...

[Blammo]

Originally posted by Maniac
This whas a bit of a knee jerk response from you...

Well, I kind of felt the way I was being addressed was inappropriate.  Just looking for positive suggestions instead of 'Don't do that.'

[BenDover]

What about "don't do that or you'll get the crappest ground crew availible in the ToD"

[nopoop]

"Don't do that" IS a positive response

Look like we have very similar systems:

Epox INTEL865 EP-4PDA2+
800 FBS Hypertheading
INTEL P4/3.0GHz CPU
2 x 512MB PC 3200 Ram
Western Digital SATA 80gig hard drive
7200RPM 8MB buffer
Chaintech FX5900XT Nvidia card 128meg
DirectX 9.0B

Now a couple of questions. Is your MB 800 FBS dual channel hyperthreading ?? if so is it enabled ?? And second, what resolution are you running at ??

I'm running at 1024x768 full sliders with ground detail backed off to 2 3/4 miles instead of the max of three. With those settings I get 68fps in the tower and 85 flying ( vsync on - more about that later ) I get 85fps ( my sync rate ) unless there is ALOT going on and it drops to the fifties.

Vsync on is important for another problem that comes with having it off. Rubber bullets. If your not sync'd that hit sprite might be a "tweener" and gets lost. If you lose it, your cons FE isn't notified.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the visual impact of frame rates doesn't become evident to the eye until it's around the mid twenty range. If your running in the high thirties in a crowd you won't see it.

If you ARE running at a very high resolution, drop it down and play with it. I don't really see much difference with higher rez anyway, but that's just me.

Beta is beta and I've seen framerates steadlly improve. Partical effects will no doubt be added once it's rolling. Another thing to keep in mind is that if a current setup maxed in resolution and detail screams, the game is behind from the release.

But if your running at 1024 you have a problem, and it ain't the game.

Oh, and run endit all before ya log on.

[RedTop]

what is endit? and that Gunsight ya posted...Thanks..I been looking for that as well.

[nopoop]

Red to a search for "end it all". It's a program that shows all of the programs running on you box. You have the option of closing all that aren't necessary for you to play the game.

All my programs, scanning, printer, Nikon upload, adobe gamma, blah blah are terminated with the program. If you make a mistake and close something that "needs" to be running ?? A reboot puts it back in. You pick and choose through experimentation what HAS to be running and nothing more. That way your lean and mean.

If you can't find a free shareware, email me and I'll send you the freeware setup.

( they realized there was a buck to be made )

nopoops190@sbcglobal.net

[Blammo]

nopoop:  Thank you very much.  The information you supplied was most helpful and I will look at some of the things you mentioned.

As a note, I do have End It All and use it, but have not during my testing.  I will have a look with it too.

Yes, I have the 800 MHz FSB and hyperthreading.  I believe it is on enabled (I will double check that tomorrow).

I have a 19" monitor so I normally run my desktop and games at 1280 x 1024 if possible.  I tried AH2 at a lower res (although not extensively), but it didn't seem to change things.  Will revisit.

HiTech:  Please forgive my sarcastic response.  I still feel like you sort popped my hand, but after thinking it through I believe you were only trying to help.  Perhaps I was not clear that I am really looking for ideas to get the best performance I can.  Anyway, didn't mean to dump on ya.

BenDover: Yeah, that's incentive.

Just a note:  I did some tweakin to my bios, installed the 56.72 drivers from nVidia, and installed the AH2 beta 33.  We'll see how it does, but it 'seemed' a bit more stable on the FPS.  Will test more tomorrow.

Anyway, cheers!

[GtoRA2]

Search for Enditall2, just like I just typed it.

Do not go to the PCmag site, others will have it for free.


Enditall2 works on XP, and is a nice little progy.

[zmeg]

Check your AF & AA settings, AF does no good in ah or ah2 but cuts fps considerably, AA will improve image quality but also cut fps. My ti4200 gets 75fps at 1600 X 1200 reducing resilution has no noticeable effect.

[Darkish]

Just did HitTech's suggested test with v-sync, and found a 25% drop in framerates when it's enabled. (1024x768)

------------------
System Information
------------------
Operating System: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 1 (2600.xpsp2.030422-1633)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MEDIONPC
System Model: MS-6747
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.06GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 512MB RAM
Page File: 156MB used, 1094MB available
Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0b (4.09.0000.0902)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 5.03.0001.0902 32bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
Display Tab 1: No problems found. DirectDraw test results: All tests were successful.
Direct3D 7 test results: All tests were successful. Direct3D 8 test results: All tests were successful.
Direct3D 9 test results: All tests were successful.
Display Tab 2: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Music Tab: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
Network Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (n/a)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce FX 5200
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0322&SUBSYS_91951462&REV_A1
Display Memory: 256.0 MB
Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (72Hz)
Monitor: Default Monitor
Monitor Max Res:
Driver Name: nv4_disp.dll
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.5672 (English)
DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail