Are countries providing "free" medical care deemed to be "socialist"?

[Momus--]

I don't think any nation spends as large a percentage of GDP on heathcare as the USA,  however there are nations who provide a level of heathcare approaching that of the US model at a significantly lower cost. There's probably a message here.

Lazs, I find it amusing that you rail against socialism in other countries but don't even mention the level of corporate welfare in your own country. Or doesn't corporate welfare count as socialism by your definition?

[Rolex]

I think comparing healthcare efficacy or the cost effectiveness of different systems without having been a participant in each of them is akin to commenting on a book you have not read.  

[vorticon]

laz in public healthcare your tax dollars pay for your healthcare and when you figure out the amount of money that goes out of your taxes and into your healthcare it is far less than what you would normally have to pay...

also (this may be different in usa) roads are built and maintained by private companies working under contract...and if your roads are in poor condition its because theres a labour crew shortage...

ra...how do individual tax payers determine what hospitals do? all they do is use the services.

[Toad]

Originally posted by strk
I think he meant tha the income classes area more heavily grouped at the extreme "polar" ends

I think you're wrong.

Define your income classes and then give us the grouping.

The idea that the US is made up of ~ 300 million extremely poor or extremely rich people is laughable.

This is where "middle class" got it's name.

[Toad]

Originally posted by beet1e
I High standard of living for those who want it, ie. prepared to work for it.  

Dang, there's always a catch isn't there?

Where'd this "work for it" idea come from, anyway?

[JBA]

Originally posted by beet1e
The population is polarised between very rich and very poor.

we have the one of largest middle class's in the world

[/i]No government provided health care to speak of. [/QUOTE]

Medicare, medicad, Health net, just to name 3 off of the top of my head that are government and free.

[/i]The USA has good hospitals, I am sure. But high costs for those whose plans do not cover the required treatment. For those who have no employment and therefore no health plan, the reality is grim indeed. [/QUOTE]

Greem?,, ?,, no hospital can refuse care based on inability to pay, walk in get care, that's how it works, and is why many Hospitals in the South east are bankrupted due to the illegal Mexicans flooding the country 13,000 daily.


[/i]In Chicago, for example, the last hope for some is the Cook County Hospital, .....the most common cause of complications in pregnancy is gunshot wounds. (source - BBC documentary)
[/QUOTE]


This has got more to do with ethnic brake down the free care.

[ra]

ra...how do individual tax payers determine what hospitals do? all they do is use the services.

Or they don't use the services.  Individuals can usually choose their own doctors and hospitals, or at least have some input into their own family's heath care decisions.  And health care services are available in other places than just hospitals.

[Yeager]

I think he nailed the district of columbia right on the head.

[Tarmac]

Originally posted by Momus--
Lazs, I find it amusing that you rail against socialism in other countries but don't even mention the level of corporate welfare in your own country. Or doesn't corporate welfare count as socialism by your definition?

Of course it does.  Any coerced reallocation of the nation's/citizens' capital is socialism and undermines the free market.  I'd like to get rid of all corporate tax breaks (hell, personal tax breaks too) and other "corporate welfare" asap, but unfortunately our political system's suceptability to big money interests make that difficult.  

Socialism implies that some ******* politician in Washington or Lansing (my state's capital) knows what to do with my money better than I do.  I find the idea extremely insulting.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Beetle have a boring morning at work again?

[Nilsen]

work?? .....lol thats a waste of valuable time.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Staga
Well it's good to hear it's not tax-payers money used in those (for some) un-needed services your communities are offering you but the money comers from states and counties  

????   Uh... so you think the only time you are using the police force is when you call them?  Or they stop the guy infront of you for speeding?

The very existence of a PD is benifited by everyone in the community.  "Fear" of force and / or imprisonment is a deterent for crime.  If the PD wasn't in the community, it would be a very dangerous place to live.  period

[lazs2]

LOL.... this is beyond silly... what some of you seem to be saying is that we could get better or equal health care by letting the government run the program.

What all of you are not factoring in is that in the socialist countries if you did not have limits on how much you could sue for then your systems would be broke in a year.

Conversely... most of the cost of healthcare in the U.S. is malpractice costs.     there is no point in talking any cost reform without talking tort reform and if we get tort reform the whold subject will be moot... there is no need to trash our system and burden our taxpayers with socialist medical care if the cost of healthcare is halved or better.

Staga... I would even be for the cities contracting out for police and fire and other services... the trend is towards that... Also.. for vouchers in schools.   It would cost us much less.

Corprate welfare?   I am not for corprate welfare either.   But... If I have to prioritize my tax monies then I would obviously rather have corporations recieve tax benifiets than social programs that do nothing but grow the government.   At least the corporations return something to me as a stock holder or consumer say.

As for tax benifiets for corporations... lets not be hypocrites here... we all want to do it.. we give tax breaks on a local level every day and are glad to do it.. we do it to attract bussines to our state or city..  we do it so that they will in turn bring in revenue for us.   You can call this "trickle down" if you like but it is standard operating practice.   We extort less money from bussines in order to have them locate with us and all of you/us are a part of that and glad of it....

so can the cliche knee jerk "corprate welfare" line as used in defense of socialism.

lazs

[storch]

Beet1e what is your bosses E-mail addy?  

[mietla]

Originally posted by lazs2
 But... If I have to prioritize my tax monies then I would obviously rather have corporations recieve tax benifiets than social programs that do nothing but grow the government.

Worse than that.

By taking away an incentive to work, it turns armies of potentially productive people into a permanent underclass completely dependent on the socialist politicians who feed them at the expense of the productive members of the society.

"Liberal vote factory", thats all.

Competent and independent people are a threat to the big government.