Are countries providing "free" medical care deemed to be "socialist"?

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
Conversely... most of the cost of healthcare in the U.S. is malpractice costs.

Taken as a figurative statement, Lazs makes a worthy point. I read the first two books by Lee Iacocca - arguably one of the best presidents the US never had. (Well, him and Barry Goldwater.) In one of his books, Iacocca speaks of what has happened to health care in the US. OK, the books are almost 20 years old now and changes have occurred since. But the example he gave was the cost of vaccination against diphtheria. The shots for that used to cost around 50 cents, but had risen to $12 or more because the vaccine producers had to guard against malpractice suits by doing a lot of extra tests and paying insurance premiums in case they got landed with a malpractice suit. I remember this one because my brother had a very bad reaction to his diphtheria vaccination and was very unwell. The doctor advised that he would not be able to receive a smallpox vaccination because it could kill him. That was in the 1950s and I'm sure it never entered my parents' heads to think of suing the doctor or anyone else for the illness by brother suffered. But times have changed and nowadays everyone is suing everyone else - figuratively speaking, of course.

Steve - I'm going to buy 10 thimbles today in readiness for my next US trip. Are you saying that the ER at any US hospital will administer emergency medical treatment to anyone who can't pay? Hope you like my sig.

[Nashwan]

Are you saying that the ER at any US hospital will administer emergency medical treatment to anyone who can't pay?

My understanding is they will treat anyone, but will persue you for the costs afterwards.

[Steve]

Are you saying that the ER at any US hospital will administer emergency medical treatment to anyone who can't pay?

Yes, as I understand it, and as Stacy has told me, no-one will be turned away from Emergency room treatment, it is how illegal immigrants recieve their "healthcare".  Stacy says they bring their kids to the ER for earaches.... can't go anywhere else.

They give false names, addresses so they cannot be pursued for the bill.  

I'm going to buy 10 thimbles today in readiness for my next US trip.

Rats!  Foiled again.

Hope you like my sig.

Good humor.

[lazs2]

shlotz... Are you saying that there are multimillion dollar suits against doctors and drug manufactures in your country every day?

silat... are you serious?  you don't know this?   of course insurance companies make a profit... they simply raise rates on the health care providers who raise their rates.   It is you and I who are paying for all the lawsuits.   Malprctice insurance is allmost allways a higher amount than earnings for doctors and for drug companies.

Iif you take out the lawsuits the insurance would be cut to less than half...

beetle... you cannot be refused at the emergency room of any hospital unless it is private.   Even then... you are required to be treated for life threatening illness or injury... they will indeed come after you for compensation tho... often settling for a third or less of the cost.   This factors into the cost of our healthcare.

lazs

[Torque]

Oldest trick in the book used by insurance companies to cohort and raise the basic premiums across the board and then wait fer the public out cry forcing the politicians to levy caps on claims, rinse repeat for auto etc...

Corporation run healthcare, hows the milk tasting these days?

[mietla]

Originally posted by Nashwan
My understanding is they will treat anyone, but will persue you for the costs afterwards.

Only if they can find you (you gave them real address) and if you have money.

[Toad]

I have a friend, John Smith of 1234 Main Street, Anytown, USA  703-555-1212.

He never pays for care from Emergency Rooms. Never.

[ra]

Originally posted by GScholz
No, but perhaps you should explore the reason why there aren't multimillion dollar suits against doctors and drug manufacturers in Norway every day. It is not because people aren't allowed to sue for millions if they want to.

Is it because Norweigan doctors never make mistakes?  Or because your legal system doesn't let lawyers run rampant like a fox in a henhouise?

[Staga]

If guilty our courts (I believe same goes with Norway, not sure about Sweden thought) can and will convict person/enterprice/community for compensation and surcharge but enormous punitive sanctions aren't used here (thank god).

[lazs2]

And that is my point.... No healthcare can work in this country withour first addressing the tort problem... and... if the tort problem is under control then there is no healthcare problem...  without the reform there is no solution.

torque..  insurance companies work on a profit margin... they also have to compete.  It is illegal for them to collude with each other.  Are you saying that insurance should be run by the government?   Like the well run medicare and social security perhaps?   big savings there huh?

lazs

[strk]

Originally posted by lazs2
And that is my point.... No healthcare can work in this country withour first addressing the tort problem... and... if the tort problem is under control then there is no healthcare problem...  without the reform there is no solution.

torque..  insurance companies work on a profit margin... they also have to compete.  It is illegal for them to collude with each other.  Are you saying that insurance should be run by the government?   Like the well run medicare and social security perhaps?   big savings there huh?

lazs

tort reform aint gonna get you all the way there, and it is hard because you need to make it so people who are really wronged can get compensation.  

tort reform really favors big companies so it is very suspect.  Look at the people behind it.  

insurance companies carry blame for health care costs too, as does the AMA and Big Pharma.  Lots of money there.

[strk]

Originally posted by GScholz
Well obviously since we're a much smaller country there are fewer mistakes made, but that is not the only reason. Lawyers can run rampant as much as they want, but the courts won't award a huge compensation unless it is warranted. In addition in cases were the plaintiff needs care, or other forms of help to function in life, the state provides it (us being socialists and all) at no cost to the plaintiff, so most of the enormous cost of living for disabled people (for instance) is covered, and does not factor in the compensation. We have had cases that ended up with millions in compensation, but they are very few and far apart.

Edit: And of course jail term sentences for medical malpractice also helps.

state provided medical coverage means companies dont have to cover it, too.  Jail for med mal?  wow

[storch]

Originally posted by GScholz
Of course. If you ruin somebody's life because of incompetence or irresponsibility during an operation you are just as guilty of a crime as if you injured him/her with your car while driving recklessly.

That's what we need here.  Not the rediculous law suits for millions that really does nothing for society in general.

[Staga]

NOOOooo, That road takes you to socialism!!!

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by strk
tort reform aint gonna get you all the way there, and it is hard because you need to make it so people who are really wronged can get compensation.  

tort reform really favors big companies so it is very suspect.  Look at the people behind it.  

insurance companies carry blame for health care costs too, as does the AMA and Big Pharma.  Lots of money there.

"Lots of money there"  That is why tort reform "really favors big companies" nobody sues Joe Schmuck, MD for 350 billion, cause he makes only $130k, and still owes on his student loan; he will just declare bankruptcy.  

Instead sue Bristol Meyers Squibb and better yet go after tobacco companies, McDonalds, Ford and Liquor producers.  They might not be 2% at fault for your predicament, but they have deep pockets.  The 85 year old retiree who funds her life based on stock value can afford it.