Interesting Statistics on British gun control

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Steve
Replicant, forgive me.  My post wasn't intended to discuss anything but that I do not feel gun control works.  It was in NO way intended to be a slight on Great Britian, it's laws, or it's people. My apologies to anyone who perceived it as such and I hope this clears it up.

Thank you Steve.  Unfortunately crime is on the increase whether people have guns or not.  

The ban on certain firearms was a knee jerk reaction to please the British public.  The majority seem happy and given a referendum on the subject I'm positive that 98% would still vote against firearms.  

Crime is just increasing... 20 years ago you could leave you bicycle unlocked outside anywhere and the chances are it would be safe for your return.  Now everything is getting stolen, more criminal damage, assaults, murders etc.  It's a simple sign-o-the-times unfortunately.  No doubt in another 5 - 10 years time they'll be more crime.  I honestly think that the lack of moral beliefs and poor unbringing disrespecting each other/and their properties is to blame.  Parents/schools aren't strict enough, yet when they are they get into trouble.  It's turning into a cushy environment for criminals/trouble makers and the government is wishy washy with purnishing those that offend.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Steve
Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

Home Office source: http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page6.asp#The%20NCRS%20impact

Understanding recorded crime statistics

It can be difficult to measure accurate trends in police recorded crime. The reasons for this include:

changes in the way police have been asked to record crimes


changes in people's attitudes to reporting crime

Understanding the chart

In 2002/03, there were 5,899,450 overall crime offences recorded by the police in England & Wales.

In 1998/99, the chart shows a break because new crime types were added to the list of recorded crimes.


In 2002/03, the chart shows a 7% rise on the previous year. In fact, there was a 3% fall when the NCRS impact is taken into account.

New crime types added

In April 1998, police were asked to start recording certain new offences under various crime categories.


Because these crime types were not among the overall list of recorded crimes before that date, the chart shows a break in 1998/99. It is not possible to draw direct comparisons before and after that date.

Back to top

The NCRS impact

In April 2002, the National Crime Recording Standard (NCRS) was introduced across police forces. Its purpose is:



to promote greater consistency in how police record crime
to take a more victim-led approach in recording crime - by recording alleged offences, as well as evidence-based ones


In many cases, the NCRS has led to an increase in recorded crime figures, making it look like more crimes were committed, when that might not be the case. (more...)


For a more accurate picture of overall crime trends across England & Wales, see ALL CRIME - British Crime Survey data.

Home Office source: http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page54.asp

According to the BCS:

In 2002/03, the total number of crimes in England & Wales was around 12,308,000.


Total crime peaked in 1995, and has since fallen by 36%.


In 2002/03, 27% of the population were the victims of some type of crime.  


This has fallen from a high in 1995 of nearly 40% of the population.

Originally posted by Steve
Meanwhile, gun crimes in Britain are increasing. According to London's authoritative Sunday Times, the number of firearm offenses in Britain increased almost 40 percent from 4,903 in 1997 to 6,843 in 2000. These are still small figures in comparison to the United States, but the trend is the opposite of what might be expected.

Home Office source: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime/guncrime/index.html

Gun Crime & Firearms Controls
The current situation l What we’re doing about it l What you can do


The current situation

In some areas, gun crime is a major cause of fear and distress.

Most worrying is the rise in the number of young people carrying real or imitation firearms, either to boost their image, or from a misguided idea about self-protection. Some of this is linked to gang activity, which itself is linked to the illegal drug trade.

Contrary to public perception, the overall level of gun crime in this country is relatively low – less than half of 1% of all crime recorded by the police – and in the year ending 31 March 2003, there was:

a 16% reduction in homicides involving firearms
a 13% reduction in robberies involving firearms
Even so, we have seen an unacceptable rise in gun crime over recent years, and are doing everything we can to tackle it.

Steve seems to have fallen into the trap of believing news sources in one country which are reporting on news in another country. I learned the folly of that having lived in countries other than my own. I don't know what "Fox News" is. All my sources are British government documents issued by the Home Office.

Originally posted by Steve
Gun control does not work.

Gun control does work; it just doesn't work perfectly. The fact that it works at all is borne out by the relative low gun homicide rates in countries where privately owned guns are not allowed when compared with those of the USA in which there is no gun control to speak of and there are some 200 million guns floating around in private hands.

To say that "gun control does not work" is like saying that "tax laws don't work" because a relative handful of people fiddle their income taxes, or like saying that "speed limits don't work" because people still get caught doing 35mph in a 30 zone.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Steve
Replicant, forgive me.  My post wasn't intended to discuss anything but that I do not feel gun control works.  It was in NO way intended to be a slight on Great Britian, it's laws, or it's people. My apologies to anyone who perceived it as such and I hope this clears it up.

No apology needed. But I must make one small correction to your spelling, as you are so fond of correcting that of other people: The word "it's" only ever means "it is". If you mean "belonging to it", the spelling is "its" - ie. no apostrophe.

Guess it's going to be one of those days when you'd like to wring my neck!

[Steve]

You're right Beet, of course.  I considered making the correction myself. Honestly, I was too lazy to do so.

[Steve]

Beet, I took a long look at the Home Office stats last night. I've got to run but we'll discuss it later.  

Toodle pip.

[Replicant]

Originally posted by beet1e
The word "it's" only ever means "it is".

And of course also means 'it has'...... e.g. It's been a lovely day say what?!

BTW, How's it going Beet?

[txmx]

In other words It aint working.

[DREDIOCK]

Ahh gun control.
Every time I think of this subject I cant help but thing of  the old TV Show "All in the Family"

Gloria is telling Archie how many people are killed with handguns each year. His responce is classic.

"Would it make you any happier  little girl if they was thrown out of windows?"

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by txmx
In other words It aint working.

No what has been demonstrated is an amazing ability to quote what is nothing more than a cheap online tabloid whose references when checked show the article is written totally out of context with the statistics (ie read beetles research/quotes from the actual reports above).

[beet1e]

Originally posted by Replicant
And of course also means 'it has'...... e.g. It's been a lovely day say what?!

Bah! You got me there - well done.

BTW, How's it going Beet?

Fine. Life is good.

BTW you know that Curval is here this week? We're meeting up on Friday in London. I know it's probably too far for you to come though.

[Replicant]

Originally posted by beet1e
Bah! You got me there - well done.  Fine. Life is good.

BTW you know that Curval is here this week? We're meeting up on Friday in London. I know it's probably too far for you to come though.

I would have liked to have made it but two people are off work so I'm having to cover their jobs.  I'm down at Duxford on Wednesday night though (members evening) as they have the Lancaster III, Anson, Lightning, Hunter and Meteor all open to climb inside!

[AKIron]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
It's going to change the country you live in.

lol, sorry, I wasn't laughing at you, aw hell, yes I was

I'm sure that if I filmed myself taking a dump on the American flag I could win some sort of award at Cannes.

[lazs2]

Hey that's a good one... when the laws you pass increase crime.... change the way it is reported or simply claim that it was wrong in the past.

If you never arrested anyone or recorded any crimes that were reported then your silly gun laws could be said to have stopped crime altogether.

by the way they are reported now... crime is up since gun control of 96.

Australia is the same.   It never works.

now, here in the U.S. ...  When more people get concealed carry permits.... ALL crime goes down... people are so muich more polite.

lazs

[beet1e]

Originally posted by lazs2
Hey that's a good one... when the laws you pass increase crime.... change the way it is reported or simply claim that it was wrong in the past.

If you never arrested anyone or recorded any crimes that were reported then your silly gun laws could be said to have stopped crime altogether.

Ah yes, but I think the American way (ie YOUR way) is better. Crime goes up - homicides go up - so the solution you guys have adopted is to open your already porous borders to allow in armies of largely peaceable, law abiding migrants. As well as solving the busboy shortage at Denny's, this action swells the US population at a rate even higher than the rate of increase in crime. And then you can claim, as you have in the past, that crime "has gone down", by which you mean that the rate per capita has gone down, whilst total crime has actually gone up. <-(one was only just enough)

I say again, gun control does work - even if not perfectly. Or else we would have about 40 million guns in circulation and an annual gun homicide tally of 2000-3000. Any increases/decreases you see are very small annual fluctuations.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by beet1e
I say again, gun control does work - even if not perfectly. Or else we would have about 40 million guns in circulation and an annual gun homicide tally of 2000-3000. Any increases/decreases you see are very small annual fluctuations.

If by gun control you mean denying guns to criminals while allowing law abiding citizens the right to own and even carry guns then yes, I agree, gun control does reduce crime. If you actually mean by gun control, gun elimination, then no, it doesn't reduce crime as the cited statistics so eloquently portray.