Interesting Statistics on British gun control

[storch]

Originally posted by Replicant
Thank you Steve.  Unfortunately crime is on the increase whether people have guns or not.  

The ban on certain firearms was a knee jerk reaction to please the British public.  The majority seem happy and given a referendum on the subject I'm positive that 98% would still vote against firearms.  

Crime is just increasing... 20 years ago you could leave you bicycle unlocked outside anywhere and the chances are it would be safe for your return.  Now everything is getting stolen, more criminal damage, assaults, murders etc.  It's a simple sign-o-the-times unfortunately.  No doubt in another 5 - 10 years time they'll be more crime.  I honestly think that the lack of moral beliefs and poor unbringing disrespecting each other/and their properties is to blame.  Parents/schools aren't strict enough, yet when they are they get into trouble.  It's turning into a cushy environment for criminals/trouble makers and the government is wishy washy with purnishing those that offend.

Crime is on the decrease here in Florida because the criminal element does not know which grandma is capable of popping a cap into his assetts.  It has been safer in Florida since passing the landmark right to carry legislation.  It could be for you also if you ever get your heads out of the sand.  Perhaps then you won't find it necessary to have us ship our personal weapons over to you next time some eurodespot rears his ugly head.

Great troll BTW

[beet1e]

Originally posted by storch
Crime is on the decrease here in Florida because the criminal element does not know which grandma is capable of popping a cap into his assetts.  It has been safer in Florida since passing the landmark right to carry legislation.  It could be for you also if you ever get your heads out of the sand.  Perhaps then you won't find it necessary to have us ship our personal weapons over to you next time some eurodespot rears his ugly head.

Pleased to hear of your crime decrease. But it had a long way to fall. And the rate of US homicides will always greatly exceed ours because of your gun culture.

[storch]

Originally posted by beet1e
Pleased to hear of your crime decrease. But it had a long way to fall. And the rate of US homicides will always greatly exceed ours because of your gun culture.

Really?   laughable

[beet1e]

Originally posted by AKIron
If by gun control you mean denying guns to criminals while allowing law abiding citizens the right to own and even carry guns then yes, I agree, gun control does reduce crime. If you actually mean by gun control, gun elimination, then no, it doesn't reduce crime as the cited statistics so eloquently portray.

What statistics? May I respectfully point out that you can't have gun crimes without guns. That is the stance that so many civilised countries of the world adopt, the US being a notable exception. So while our gun homicide tally has never exceeded 100 in any year, the US homicide tally has often topped 10,000 - 13,000+ in 1992. And most of these homicides involve handguns.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Storch, yes - really.

[AKIron]

Robbery has more than doubled in your country in the 10 years since your gun ban Beetle. Surely you can see the connection?

[storch]

What about homicide by other methods?  What about rape?  what about strong armed robbery?  What about home invasion?  What about a piece of crafted steel scares you so?  Silly, Silly euros.  And all of our conflicts oddly enough begin with you people.  I'll refer you to Randy Newman's 1972 release of a song called "foreign policy" as my response to the lot of you.  The error is your own, as usual.

[Replicant]

In the UK owning a firearm without the correct certification = firearm offence.  No one injured, no crime other than ownership.  I wonder how many offences are purely out of ownership rather than committing a assault.

[AKIron]

Originally posted by beet1e
What statistics? May I respectfully point out that you can't have gun crimes without guns. That is the stance that so many civilised countries of the world adopt, the US being a notable exception. So while our gun homicide tally has never exceeded 100 in any year, the US homicide tally has often topped 10,000 - 13,000+ in 1992. And most of these homicides involve handguns.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum.

Storch, yes - really.

"Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense. (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992) -"

http://home.wi.rr.com/ccw4wi/nra.html

No need to get all respectful.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by AKIron
Robbery has more than doubled in your country in the 10 years since your gun ban Beetle. Surely you can see the connection?

No, surely I do not, as the US (if the stats on the FBI website are to be believed) has never seen fewer than 400,000 robberies in any of the last 20 years. It reached a low in 2000 but is on the increase again. Source: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/xl/02tbl01.xls

Britain's tally of robberies peaked in 2002, and is now decreasing. Source: http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/page21.asp

[Siaf__csf]

A recent swedish study shows that 9 out of 10 household burglaries are committed by drug addicts.

The amount of violent crime increases directly with the amount of alcohol / drug addicted persons. Drugs kill way more people yearly directly and indirectly than terrorism.

[beet1e]

Originally posted by AKIron
"Violent crime rates are highest overall in states with laws severely limiting or prohibiting the carrying of concealed firearms for self-defense. (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 1992) -"

http://home.wi.rr.com/ccw4wi/nra.html

No need to get all respectful.

Take care to avoid what Lazs does in all these gun posts - making the mistake of applying the US thesis to the UK model. I gain the impression that you feel the rise of certain crimes in Britain is because thousands/millions of law abiding Britons had their guns confiscated. Nope, it just isn't like that.

One of the problems when comparing US/UK crime rates is the population disparity of the two countries. It's easy to say "factor up the UK values" to get a "per 100,000 population" value for such statistics, but that overlooks the fact that Britain is largely an urban society, with the vast majority of folks living within 25 miles of large cities where most of the crime takes place. Compare that with the US where millions live in small, rural communities where everyone knows everyone. As Siaf points out in his post ^ the vast majority of household burglaries are committed by drug addicts. Where are the drug addicts and their points of supply? Big cities.

[lazs2]

replicant makes a good point...  to simply own a firearm is a crime.

is that what we want?   Put yourself in the place of a woman who has seen 3 rapes and 8 burglaries in the neighborhood she lives in or... an older couple who are infirm... buy a gun and go to prison or.... don't and maybe get maimed or worse.

thanks for all the freedom of choice england.

And beetle... I agree that out problems stem mostly from immigration and drugs but... What you gonna do?   we aren't a little island that can keep out people and squash the freedom of those within... they might shoot at us if we do.   Jefferson and company set it up that way.

lazs

[AKIron]

I don't know about England but I do know that several years ago the state of Florida had a horendous murder rate that was out of control. In a desperate attempt to get this under control they began allowing their law abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. It worked and was so successful many other US states have followed suit and have seen declines overall in crime as a result. Hard to argue with success.

[Momus--]

Jesus H, not this one again.  

To summarise:

(More Guns=less crime in the USA)!=(less guns=more crime in the UK)

Steve, please use the forum search feature to find the past threads where this one has been done to death, assuming that this is not some pointless troll and you are actually interested in the truth?

[storch]

Originally posted by AKIron
I don't know about England but I do know that several years ago the state of Florida had a horendous murder rate that was out of control. In a desperate attempt to get this under control they began allowing their law abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons. It worked and was so successful many other US states have followed suit and have seen declines overall in crime as a result. Hard to argue with success.

 
 That's exactly right.  

 We in South Florida were just coming out of the era of the "cocaine cowboys" and most shootings were drug related. (as they still are)  

 This lawless attitude spilled over into the "opportunity" neighborhoods and you had the "underpriviledged" arming themselves and jacking cars, invading homes, and other types violent crimes.  

 Once the shall issue permits were implemented all it took was about 6 months of justice meted out on the spot for the criminal element to change their ways.  

 They began to assault and murder european tourists.  The tourists were easy to spot because rental automobiles had tags that ended in the letter Z.  This once again changed when tags ending in Z were issued to leased vehicles.  Some of our "victims of societal injustice" ended up on the pavement outlined in chalk so the Z tags were eliminated so that their civil rights would not be violated as they raped pillaged and murdered.

 As it now stands prosecutors are enforcing the laws to their full extent.  If you carry a firearm in the commission of a crime mandatory 5 year sentance, if anyone sees the firearm while in the commission of the felony 10 year mandatory, if you use the firearm in a display 25 year mandatory and if anyone is injured by a firearm during the commission of a felony mandatory life without parole.

 The combination of an armed society coupled with vigorous prosecution has made our community much safer.  It began by a sensible administration recognizing my right to self defense.