Author Topic: Did you just watch President Bush's speech?  (Read 3114 times)

Offline RedTop

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2004, 10:19:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
damn right sir

lets go get in our spitVs and kill us some 'bad guys'

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHA!

 

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Martlet -     -50



Be glad to...as soon as I ohh...Runover severall old people...Kill at least 8 minorities and try my BEST to cheat someone outta something....

You know...like a good Republican that I am.   :rofl
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Offline Bodhi

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2004, 10:20:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
How bout a new counter?

So far this speech has changed   0   minds on this BBS about the Iraq war issue.

This count will not likely need to be updated.


You are absolutely wrong... I was having some doubts about some policy issues, and was debating not voting... (I will burn in hell before I vote Kerry), I feel reaffirmed in Bush.  He is a man of conviction, and a man of heart.  One that has a good vision, and will give his all for the American people...  definitely not something ole flip flop Kerry strikes in me....
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Offline mechanic

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2004, 10:21:08 PM »
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Others    1
Martlet    -50
Bhodi     -100 (special prize for being the moodiest shrecker around and quite obviously not having a light hearted thought 9in his head about something as stupid as this BBS fight)
edit: Grunherz      500000000 points for the best point so far in this silly long list of pointless points
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Offline Bodhi

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2004, 10:22:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
Scores:

USA     1
Others    1
Martlet    -50
Bhodi     -100 (special prize for being the moodiest shrecker around and quite obviously not having a light hearted thought 9in his head about something as stupid as this BBS fight)


Glad you feel that way... but you have not seen moody... not by a long shot...
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Offline RedTop

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2004, 10:22:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
You are absolutely wrong... I was having some doubts about some policy issues, and was debating not voting... (I will burn in hell before I vote Kerry), I feel reaffirmed in Bush.  He is a man of conviction, and a man of heart.  One that has a good vision, and will give his all for the American people...  definitely not something ole flip flop Kerry strikes in me....


:aok I'd kiss ya Bodhi if'in ya's a girl and it wasn't with all the gay talk on this BBS...may have a rumor started ya know.:rofl
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Offline Toad

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2004, 10:29:02 PM »
What do you all want to happen?

The attempt to give Iraqis their own sovereignity is going to be made. It's not going to be easy, it's not going to be fast and undoubtedly more blood will be shed.

But how do each of you want this to turn out?

Do you want it to fail simply so you can smugly say "I told you so!" ?

Or do you want it to succeed so that there's at least a hope for the future of the Iraqi people and maybe the Middle East?

Debate the cause of the war, question the WMD, etc., etc. That's what historians do.

It's Realpolitik now.

This thing is going to happen. Do you want it to succeed or fail?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline mechanic

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2004, 10:42:52 PM »
in all honesty, if we forget all the bbs bullchit:

i truly hope things settle down in iraq and i hope there is soon to be a cease to the loss of American, British, etc forces and that peace will come to the iraqi people who have suffered for so long


if they could see how much we all whine and fight from our armchairs and luxuary living, i think they would start another war
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Offline RedTop

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Tell ya Toad
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2004, 10:50:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
What do you all want to happen?

The attempt to give Iraqis their own sovereignity is going to be made. It's not going to be easy, it's not going to be fast and undoubtedly more blood will be shed.

But how do each of you want this to turn out?

Do you want it to fail simply so you can smugly say "I told you so!" ?

Or do you want it to succeed so that there's at least a hope for the future of the Iraqi people and maybe the Middle East?

Debate the cause of the war, question the WMD, etc., etc. That's what historians do.

It's Realpolitik now.

This thing is going to happen. Do you want it to succeed or fail?


I'll be the first to say succeed...More than most here I want it to work. I'm a conservative. I agree with the reasons this war happened. Is there so blame to be laid at the administartions feet? Sure. But not the type that is trying to be levied here.

I want it for the 100's of americans that have died doing there duty.

I want it for the Iraqi people that have died at the hands of Hussein and his Sons and there government.

I want it for this country. For the World to see that we are not as they think we are. That we did not set to conquer , but help people.

ALL stuff aside I want it because it's right. IMO. We were mislead to a degree. I don't think by Bush but by others thru Bush. I think Bush told us what he truly believed to be the truth as to WHY we were going to war. I think we are still sitting ducks to the Quacks out there that will do us harm.

Has everything went well there? NO...But war is that way. Did we get a black eye due to numbskulls abusing the prisoners. YES. And that is just fuel for a fire that burns in some that don't want to see anything outside of there thinking Bush is just short of the Devil.

Personally , I think he is a man of convictions as well. I think he has high morals. He has Strong Values and is doing IMO what he feels deep in his heart is right.

Now some here feel what I just said is total crap. Thats there opinion and they are entitled to it. They ahve a right to vote for who they think will be the best in November.

I'll vote for Bush. I think he will do the best job for ME as an American. His values and morals coinside with mine. His beliefs are along the lines as mine. His idea of our National security is along mine. He'll get my Vote.

I want this Country to be a beacon for the world. Idealistic? Probably. But , as an Ex_Navy who served this country with pride and dignity , its what I served for. It's the greatest country in the world.

No matter what the reasons you feel the way you do....No matter who you are...As Americans...Try to stand side by side until the job is done. THEN...Argue and disagree in a civil way.
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Offline Halo

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2004, 11:19:36 PM »
Bravo, Bodhi, RedTop, and Toad!  There are so many shallow uninformed grandstanding critics in the world you have to wonder why some brave souls ever go into politics, i.e., freely elected offices in real democracies.  

It's 100 times harder to DO things than stand around in safety on the sidelines and yap endlessly about personal agendas and vendettas.  

If Iraq can get its act together after the abuses by Saddam, and if it can avoid theocracy, the world has a chance to be a better place, and the horrendous cost of Iraq might even be worth it.  

Democracy, security, and freedom (relative, nothing is absolute) are total mysteries to way too many nations and peoples of the world.  People reared in ignorance, whether in neighborhoods or nations, are at the mercy of thugs and exploiters.  

Ultimately it's the ancient ends justify the means question.  Innocents and good people die in every conflict -- the point is whether they died for something worthwhile or in vain.  

Successful leaders somehow have to seize the opportunities at hand and improve the future rather than be crippled by not just differences of opinion but genuine enemies, foreign and domestic, who would attack them no matter what they do.  

I didn't vote for Bush but I have to applaud him as a decent human being apparently trying to do the right thing for the nation and for the world.  He doesn't pretend to know everything and he does try to surround himself with the best and brightest advisors.  

We live in a great nation when even during the Iraq and Palestine miseries we can poke fun at the President's painful fall from a bike many people of his age couldn't even ride down the driveway.  Maybe instead of poking fun at our elected leader we ought to inquire more about his welfare and try to help him help us all.

But too many would rather ridicule the President (try that in any nation other than a genuine democracy) and try to portray him as clumsy or weak to cripple him for reelection.  Free elections are at once our greatest strength and our greatest weakness, for we can count on opponents around the world working very hard to have us elect the least capable government.

Hopefully all who attain party candidancy are qualified to lead, but usually there is a best choice for the time and circumstances.

I suppose the whole thrust of this rant is that for American citizens, and for true friends of America around the world, the pride and purpose of 9/11 payback and future prevention should focus on what can we do to make the next day better rather than endless divisive wasted excessive expensive second-guessing about what went wrong yesterday, especially when the enemy is given more support than our casualties.

So in Iraq keep cleaning out the disenfranchised militants determined to keep their nation from the democratic freedom so tantalizingly close at hand.  It would be an epic tragedy if Iraq, the Middle East, and the world do not capitalize, literally, on the greatest opportunity Iraq has ever had in the modern world.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2004, 11:22:28 PM by Halo »
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Offline Bodhi

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #84 on: May 25, 2004, 12:01:42 AM »
What Toad, Redtop, and Halo said...

your last post as well Mechanic...

You know my biggest fear of all of this?  Is that if we fail here, the consequences are going to be so far reaching I have barely the ability to contend.  I had lunch with a former deputy commander of the Big Red One today... and he brought up a valid point... He said, that this war has two outcomes:

1 - we bring freedom to Iraq and the idea of that for the whole mideast, and we deal the terrorists such a setback that they are not a cohesive force in the future.  

2 - we bow out, allow the insurgents and terrorists to turn Iraq into another Afganistan, and the middle east will be forever emcamped with the terrorists.  Saudi, UAE, and Jordan will all fall, and tyranny and islamic militism will reign.  The terrorism that this will spawn will last a hundred years, and mostly likely spawn the largest ever civilian death toll the world has ever seen.  

He went on to say that we owed it to the people of Iraq, but most importantly we owed it to the world to end this.  To take the 1st option, because there was no recourse.  This is a war we must win.  

I agree, this is it, we can not tire, we can not falter, we must not fail.  Truly, the reasons of the how and why will wait, the end result is what is important.  Hopefully, those that seem to really want the US to fail will eventually realise that this is not just about the US failing, it is about the world.  The world can not afford the long term costs that will come from a failure in Iraq.  I say that from the bottom of my being, because I would like my children to grow up in a world were they do not fear a terrorist's bomb, or a nuke, or some other WMD being employed against civilians.  That alone is why I will continue to stay the course and support Bush.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2004, 12:32:11 AM by Bodhi »
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Offline Horn

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #85 on: May 25, 2004, 12:39:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi

I agree, this is it, we can not tire, we can not falter, we must not fail.  Truly, the reasons of the how and why will wait, the end result is what is important.  Hopefully, those that seem to really want the US to fail will eventually realise that this is not just about the US failing, it is about the world.  The world can not afford the long term costs that will come from a failure in Iraq.  I say that from the bottom of my being, because I would like my children to grow up in a world were they do not fear a terrorist's bomb, or a nuke, or some other WMD being employed against civilians.  That alone is why I will continue to stay the course and support Bush.


Nice sentiments. However, there wouldn't be "failure in Iraq" had we decided not to invade to "free the Iraqis" but instead kick the butt in Afghanistan that needed kicking, get our vengeance and call it a day.

Instead, you have a war where we may have troops there FOREVER to artificially install a democracy onto a people that really don't want it. What happens when we turn over "power" to the Iraqi's and they ask us to leave? What then? Do we say no? Do we remain a occupying imperialistic force? Do you think that the occupying force will engender more hate against us or less?

I understand your wanting to protect your children yet what we have done so far in Iraq is nothing more than breed a whole new group of terrorists--people who do not fight a linear war, people whose entire war history is based on familial relationships, religion and assasination. People who may not have hated us before but do now. How would you deal a "setback" to such a force that needs no "cohesion" to be successful? Those terms were used by your military man because he was not trained to understand any other.

Stay the course? Be a lemming. You are only planning the deaths of more innocents by supporting a truly ignorant, unrealistic cause expounded by a leader who doesn't understand the consequences of his actions and refuses to admit error.

h
« Last Edit: May 25, 2004, 12:42:34 AM by Horn »

Offline Dune

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2004, 12:53:04 AM »

Offline NUKE

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2004, 12:59:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Horn
Nice sentiments. However, there wouldn't be "failure in Iraq" had we decided not to invade to "free the Iraqis" but instead kick the butt in Afghanistan that needed kicking, get our vengeance and call it a day.

Instead, you have a war where we may have troops there FOREVER to artificially install a democracy onto a people that really don't want it. What happens when we turn over "power" to the Iraqi's and they ask us to leave? What then? Do we say no? Do we remain a occupying imperialistic force? Do you think that the occupying force will engender more hate against us or less?

I understand your wanting to protect your children yet what we have done so far in Iraq is nothing more than breed a whole new group of terrorists--people who do not fight a linear war, people whose entire war history is based on familial relationships, religion and assasination. People who may not have hated us before but do now. How would you deal a "setback" to such a force that needs no "cohesion" to be successful? Those terms were used by your military man because he was not trained to understand any other.

Stay the course? Be a lemming. You are only planning the deaths of more innocents by supporting a truly ignorant, unrealistic cause expounded by a leader who doesn't understand the consequences of his actions and refuses to admit error.

h


War on terrosists isn't about revenge and then going home, it's about attacking terrorists and it does not end with Afghanistan or Iraq. How ignorant to believe we should get "revenge" in Afghanistan then go home as if that completes the job.

And who are you to say Iraqis do not want democracy? How do you know Iraqis hate us? If you believe this stuff without facts, then you are the lemming.

What new group of terrorists did we "breed" Any data on that?

And by the way, where have we failed in Iraq? What part of the Iraq war was a failure?

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2004, 12:59:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Horn
Nice sentiments. However, there wouldn't be "failure in Iraq" had we decided not to invade to "free the Iraqis" but instead kick the butt in Afghanistan that needed kicking, get our vengeance and call it a day.

Instead, you have a war where we may have troops there FOREVER to artificially install a democracy onto a people that really don't want it. What happens when we turn over "power" to the Iraqi's and they ask us to leave? What then? Do we say no? Do we remain a occupying imperialistic force? Do you think that the occupying force will engender more hate against us or less?

I understand your wanting to protect your children yet what we have done so far in Iraq is nothing more than breed a whole new group of terrorists--people who do not fight a linear war, people whose entire war history is based on familial relationships, religion and assasination. People who may not have hated us before but do now. How would you deal a "setback" to such a force that needs no "cohesion" to be successful? Those terms were used by your military man because he was not trained to understand any other.

Stay the course? Be a lemming. You are only planning the deaths of more innocents by supporting a truly ignorant, unrealistic cause expounded by a leader who doesn't understand the consequences of his actions and refuses to admit error.

h


Horn what would you do?

Beacause objectivly there isnt much difference between your "all is lost" and Bush's "stay the course."

Offline Bodhi

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Did you just watch President Bush's speech?
« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2004, 12:59:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Horn

Stay the course? Be a lemming. You are only planning the deaths of more innocents by supporting a truly ignorant, unrealistic cause expounded by a leader who doesn't understand the consequences of his actions and refuses to admit error.

h


Seeings that this is america.... you are entitled to that opinion, sadly, it seems you have missed it, missed it completely.  You have not the slightest belief that we can accomplish what we set out to do.  Just for one second think, and I mean think hard... do you honestly believe that teh military would have taken on this mission had it not thought it remotely possible?  DO you not think that the military might just be saying pull out now?  I have yet to hear that, but what I have heard and am constantly hearing are the "arm chair" strategists screaming "We can't win, the war is wrong... the Iraqi's have nocohesion" thats a bunch of bull chit, and you damn well know it.  The insurgents are not just made up of idiots deciding to shoot em up... they are well organised, and guess what, they have support, from an unlikely ally... people like yourself.  They (the insurgents) know that all they have to do is rally public opinion in our countyr against our mission, and voila, we pull out, they get to continue to be tyrants...

You say I am a lemming... well, guess what, I see you as the lemming.  You have joined on with all the others that can not stay a course of anything, lest it benefit you in the immediate.  That in the end is that biggest problem in this country, is the need for instantaneous rewards.  Well, guess what, this thing is far from over, and unless Bush's ideas are followed through, the death toll is not going to stay overseas, we will be tending to masses dead in our very own country... haven't thought of that had you?
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