This one's for ripsnort.

[Shuckins]

Dude,

Are you implying that they DO deserve equal coverage?  That the humiliation of the Iraqi prisoners, as detestable as it might be, is somehow on a par with the massacre of 300,000 innocent Iraqis by Saddam's government?  Don't you find it a little strange that the media has given far more coverage to the prison scandal than to the mass graves being unearthed in Iraq?

Or will you suddenly discover your outrage over Saddam's atrocities after the November elections come to the conclusion you hope for?

Shuckins/Leggern

[capt. apathy]

Originally posted by Shuckins
Dude,

Are you implying that they DO deserve equal coverage?  That the humiliation of the Iraqi prisoners, as detestable as it might be, is somehow on a par with the massacre of 300,000 innocent Iraqis by Saddam's government?  Don't you find it a little strange that the media has given far more coverage to the prison scandal than to the mass graves being unearthed in Iraq?

Or will you suddenly discover your outrage over Saddam's atrocities after the November elections come to the conclusion you hope for?

Shuckins/Leggern

the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is more newsworthy than the mass graves.  at least to American audiences.

Saddam is no longer in power, he's not an American, and his victims where not Americans,  so while it's a horrible thing and by no means should it be forgotten or ignored, it simply isn't as news worthy, or as important of a topic to American viewers as is actions by our fellow Americans

 also with an election coming up it's critically important that this is handled as thoroughly, quickly, and as publicly as possible.  that they take the investigation as far up the chain of command as the evidence warrants, with out regard to who may or may not be "off limits".

our elected officials represent us to the world, they set policy's for our armed forces behavior over-seas.  if elected officials or their appointees, encouraged, knew-about, or even suspected these things where going on, the American voters have a right to that information, for consideration, before the time comes to decide if you want these people representing you an further.

[Eagler]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
...., and as publicly as possible....

well, you got this part right anyways...

[LoneStarBuckeye]

Originally posted by capt. apathy
the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is more newsworthy than the mass graves.  at least to American audiences.

Saddam is no longer in power, he's not an American, and his victims where not Americans,  so while it's a horrible thing and by no means should it be forgotten or ignored, it simply isn't as news worthy, or as important of a topic to American viewers as is actions by our fellow Americans

 also with an election coming up it's critically important that this is handled as thoroughly, quickly, and as publicly as possible.  that they take the investigation as far up the chain of command as the evidence warrants, with out regard to who may or may not be "off limits".

our elected officials represent us to the world, they set policy's for our armed forces behavior over-seas.  if elected officials or their appointees, encouraged, knew-about, or even suspected these things where going on, the American voters have a right to that information, for consideration, before the time comes to decide if you want these people representing you an further.

 How can you conceivably convince yourself that what happened in those prisons is even remotely comparable to Saddam's attempted genocide?  How can you possibly believe that the situation would have been any different had Kerry, Clinton, Carter, Johnson, or even JFK been in office?  What do you suppose happened to prisoners that we took in Viet Nam?  War is a nasty, brutal affair, and GC or no GC, this sort of thing is always going to happen, whether its us, the Brits, or the French that are running the camp.  You may not like it, I may not like it, but that's really beside the point.  

(On a semi-related note, it seems to me bizarre (in an it's-ok-to-kill-unborn-children-but-not-dolphins kind of way) that many people (like the too-PC-for-Berkeley Euro-accented commentators on NPR) who are up in arms about the "humiliation" of the Iraqi prisoners seem not too upset by our wetwork in Gitmo, because the Iraqi prisoners are covered by the GC but those in Gitmo are not!  Come on!  It's either acceptable to extract information by pain, humiliation, or other unpleasant means, or it's not.)

I'll grant you that the (unwarranted) publicity that this has received will make it a bit harder for the US to take the moral high ground, but I don't think anyone was buying that act anyhow.

I'm no big fan of "W", and I'll agree that there are lots of things that are "critically important" to informing the American public's view of the candidates in the upcoming election.  But this is not one of them.

[Badger]

In his absence, I'll act as a quick surrogate for the ripster.......

Here ya go.... IMO, right on the money...

Regards,
Badger

June 02, 2004

Leftist Traitors: Calling a Spade a Spade[/url]
Posted by Minnie Hanover

     One can no longer deny the obvious.  Leftists are in the throes of a major mental meltdown.  A meltdown that is beyond their usual bizarre world where sexual dysfunction, conspiracy theories, hatred of proven facts, and indeed complete moral collapse are considered normal.  

       Of course ''normal'' is a mutable concept in the quagmire of acid-based sixties ''philosophies'' in which the left cavort with their unsavory allies.  Allies who just happen to be the enemies of America.  What we are now seeing is the warped fruit born of thirty years of rampant liberalism, which has rendered some Americans, and many Europeans, unable to make considered judgments or tell the difference between good and evil.  To the left, everything is equal and nothing has more value than anything else.  Making judgments about other cultures is bad.  Putting panties on a prisoner's head is the same as feeding him into a shredder.

     Calling a spade a spade would mean declaring loudly and truthfully that these leftists are traitors.  Instead, we play their game of pretending that people who are heartened by any incident that can be perceived or perverted into something that is bad for America, are just patriots.  But, regardless of their forked-tongue expressions of mock concern for the troops, it’s obvious that they are enacting the lessons learned from Vietnam.  Where once they spat upon the military, now they merely pretend not to exult when soldiers die and American civilians lose their heads.  This may be the only new concept they have come up with in the last thirty years.  Re-evaluating their positions is not something that people who adhere to the shopworn dogma of liberalism can abide.

     When the left's venal spokespersons on television lay out their Bush hatred, replete with sneers, insults, and outright lies, the underlying rage beneath their smarmy, superior exterior is revealed.  The clear signs of mental disorder are apparent in their simultaneous embrace and denial of Islamo-fascists' existence or threat.  ''Feminists'' march in support of those who would either subjugate or kill them.  Gays express support for maniacs who would stone them to death.  And liberal Jews, in the greatest denial of all, work to aid those who would kill them and annihilate Israel.  If this is not a mental disorder, then how is this possible?  By not confronting them with their treason, we allow them to hide behind the falsehood that they are opposing Bush and not aiding the enemy.

     Fear may be the answer to the left's dysfunction.  To acknowledge that evil exists in a world that America does not control is a scary thought.  How much more comforting to blame everything on the U.S., because then in the shallow recesses of liberal ''thought'' lurks the comforting panacea that it is controllable.  There aren't really Islamo-fascists dying to kill us.  We can fix it if we just get rid of Bush.  And make no mistake about it, how they would fix it would be to withdraw from the Middle East and exalt the corrupt United Nations.  A strategy of accepting a certain number of American deaths by Islamic terrorists every year would suit them fine.  Just like it suited Bill Clinton with his empty bluster of punishing terrorists and the foaming Al Gore who appears to have self-destructed.

     Where those who support the Iraq war see appeasement and cowardice in Spain's election results, the left sees pragmatism and good sense in rewarding terrorists by electing their preferred candidate.  And if Kerry does not go down to defeat in November, this will be our future.

[_Schadenfreude_]

lol when Conservatives call other American's traitors for disagreeing with them is the time you know they've lost the plot but have reallised their boy is going to lose big time!!!

On the other hand Ripsnort is going to be very dissapointed at not unearthing this gem!

[LoneStarBuckeye]

Originally posted by Badger
To the left, everything is equal and nothing has more value than anything else. Making judgments about other cultures is bad. Putting panties on a prisoner's head is the same as feeding him into a shredder.

This is related to what I meant by "bizarre in an it's-ok-to-kill-unborn-children-but-not-dolphins sort of way."  

But I disagree with the author that in the left's view everything is equal.  It's worse than that:  in the left's view, things are far from equal; the scale's tipped in the wrong direction.  It's hard to think of a better example of this than that presented above:  If you can weigh Saddam's atrocities, including attempted genocide, against our humiliation of Iraqi POWs and conclude that the latter is more significant, you have been irrevocably brainwashed by the left's systematic injection of moral relativism into our culture over the past several decades.  

I don't expect you to understand.  Once you've bought into the idea that there are no moral absolutes, anything is possible.  

As much as I detest what they've done to our culture, I've got to admire the lefties for their foresight, cunning, and persistence.  Their 40-year investment in undermining the core values that had sustained America for the 180 preceding years has succeeded, and done so marvelously.  And, as a side benefit, they've now got a captive audience that will gladly swallow whatever the media machine feeds them and come back begging for more!  Bravo!

[midnight Target]

You go right ahead and kill all the unborn dolphins you want.

[LoneStarBuckeye]

I suppose that's sort of clever.  Maybe funny, even.  Somehow, though, I just can't bring myself to laugh.