Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?

[capt. apathy]

Good luck.  

ya, I know.  I didn't really believe him either.

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts


But this extremely popular and successful President

Not anymore he's not....

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5395116

[ravells]

You're up early Shaden

what gives?

Ravs

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Nash
In light of your "harbouring terrorists" position, can you tell me why Iraq was invaded instead of Saudi Arabia, the nationality of the 9/11 terrorists? Iraq harbours more terrorists than the Saudis?

Or how about the phat checks Hussein wrote to the Palestinean suicide bombers. Why not attack the Palestinean suicide bombers themselves?

If you give me one of them "well we gotta start somewhere, look out world!" answers I'm gonna hurl.

Iraq refused to cooperate in the war on terror. The hijackers were Saudis, as is OBL. However, the Saudis are at least making some sort of effort to cooperate in the war on terror. How sincere and competent that effort is, is in fact subject of great question. OBL is a sworn enemy of the Saudi royal family. He's even an outcast to his own Saudi family.

While OBL is himself a disenchanted Saudi, and is in fact PNG in Saudi Arabia, and he recruits other disenchanted Saudis, he is supposedly still operating in AFGHANISTAN. Hardly a sound reason to invade Saudi Arabia.

If the hijackers were Muslims from Norway (just an example, not a knock on Norway) would it then be a valid option to invade Norway, even though the base of operations was not in Norway, but the perps were citizens of Norway? This is the rationale you provide to invade Saudi Arabia as opposed to Iraq, and it really doesn't hold up.

Considering that the U.S. is attempting to broker peace between the Israelis and the "Palestinians", we could hardly just drop into Israel and "Palestine" and go after "Palestinian" terrorists. That would be a little too obvious an example of taking one side or the other, leaving no grey area from which to negotiate. Besides, the Israelis are doing a pretty good job on the leaders of the terror groups that run the bombing operations. Witness their recent successful attacks on Hamas and Hezbollah leaders.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Not anymore he's not....

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5395116

LOL. Polls. Often the most useless of all misinformation. Just find the poll you like that fits your position and run with it. You can find a poll to fit any view if you look long enough.

[Nash]

Same with think tank papers. Yet it's supposed to actually mean something when ya parrot them.

[Gunslinger]

so apothy....I'm too slow to run the internet yet you cannot answer a simple question....Hmmmm...must be those libral defense mechanisms kicking in

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Nash
Same with think tank papers. Yet it's supposed to actually mean something when ya parrot them.

Especially when someone who does not like what they say thinks so, but refuses to offer a shred of evidence to disprove them.

Except for the fact that the article in question was not written for the think tank, and offers a laundry list of sources for quotes and facts. But the person claiming that it is the work of "nut jobs" offers nothing to counter any of it.

[Nash]

This whole proof thing of yours is nuts.

Here's bullet 3 of your so-called proof:

"Key terrorists enjoyed Hussein’s warmth, some so recently that Coalition forces subsequently found them alive and well and living in Iraq."

What IS that?

Now I gotta come up with proof to dispute that?

Okay, I say that sources close to Hussein indicate that he is indeed NOT a warm man. Cold even, some suggest.

Prove me wrong.

This is retarded.

Yours isn't proof. Nor would mine be. I'll not waste the effort in parroting BS to refute your BS.

There are known knowns, and known unknowns. I dislike the guy who came up with this Straussian shuffle but it does make sense.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

You can only call it Bravo Sierra because you seem to be incapable of refuting any of it.

It fits perfectly well with my position that Saddam Hussien was supporting terrorism actively and with serious resources and effort. Those people were there, and the entire world knows who they are or were, and what they were guilty of. And that fits perfectly with my position that removal of Saddam Hussien was justified in my opinion on the basis of his massive and concerted support and harboring of terrorists.

See I think that if you could offer some proof to me that those people were not there, they did not commit those terrorists acts, and Saddam Hussien did not invite them, welcome them, harbor them, and support them, then I'd have to rethink my position that the invasion was justified.

I'm simply looking for your side of the arguement that refutes the article with facts, and gives me reason to rethink my position.

Why you offer none, and continually refuse to do so, is beyond me.

[Nash]

Why I offer no rebuttle is because frankly, I'm over it.

This crap, all of it, has been beaten to death here... and why you have the impression that anything I say would stand out as some kind of fresh perspective or shocking new Truth is beyond me. But...

Here's the weirdness:

"It fits perfectly well with my position...."

"And that fits perfectly with my position that ..."

Get over your sweet self. It fits well with your position? Dude - it CREATED your position!

Are you telling me you have some personal mid-east terrorist experience that these articles accurately depict?

No... You read these articles, came up with a position based on them, then use the same articles to support your position.

A joke. And you call it proof.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Wrong again. It DID NOT create my position. The article is fairly recent compared to my position, which predates 11 September 2001, and in fact dates back almost to the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq in August of 1991.

My position goes as far back as the first Bush administration. It has been confirmed by several sources since then. It has been my position that Saddam Hussien supported and supplied terrorism in a very active manner for well over a decade.

So get over yourself, your assumption is again false. You don't know nearly as much about my position and the reasons behind it as you think you do.

Do I have personal experience in the Middle East? No, I do not. An injury from football ended any hopes I held of a military career before it could begin. As such, I'm also not a likely candidate for a position in the intelligence agencies either, since they nearly universally require military background for any positions I was interested in.

Do YOU have any personal experience in the Middle East? If not, then you have no better personal basis for your position than I have for mine.

I do not claim to be omnipotent. You may actually have read something that I have not that would give me reason to at least reconsider my position in part or in whole. But you offer none. Too bad.

[ravells]

What is your experience of the Middle East, Virgil?

Yes, VIRGIL....man on little strings?

What is your experience of the middle east, eh? Couldn't even get into the oxymoron which is military Intelligence?

I have personal experience of the middle east, so address your questions to me, you .. you..... thunderbirds puppet.

hah

ravs

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by ravells
What is your experience of the Middle East, Virgil?

Yes, VIRGIL....man on little strings?

What is your experience of the middle east, eh? Couldn't even get into the oxymoron which is military Intelligence?

I have personal experience of the middle east, so address your questions to me, you .. you..... thunderbirds puppet.

hah

ravs

Only what people I know who have been there and or were born there tell me. I once had several friends who came over from Jordan in 1979. They were regulars at my shop, and spoke of the region often. However, since they LEFT Jordan to come here, their views could easily be tinted or slanted. I also have friends who are or were in the military and who have been there or are now. Some rotate in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan on a very regular basis.

I never tried to get into military intelligence. Like I said, I was ineligible for military service due to an injury. What I said was that since I could not get into the military, I also could not get into one of the intelligence agencies since they almost universally require military service as a prerequisite for positions I was interested in.

Yes, I'm aware of your ties to the Middle East, although currently I do not remember exactly what country you were originally from.

Enjoy your current state of inebriation.

[ravells]

Actually Virgil, I have no ties to the middle east

I'm just pissed (and enjoying it). But thanks for the exposition

hah

Ravs