Pyro,
Thanks for taking the time to answer.
I think the "problem" with the 190's flight model is not neccessarily gounded in the charts. It may not even be the 190's flight model but rather other A/C are out of balance.
Correct me if I am wrong on the following assumptions:
1. Flight Models are no longer just a set of numbers that are straight forward to adjust. They are in fact complicated sets of data that adjusting the parameters can have unforeseen consequences on other flight characteristics. It is much more difficult than simply adjusting a few key strokes to achieve the desired effect.
2. No FM is such a simulation will ever EXACTLY match the actual A/C data. A certain "margin" of error is not only acceptable but rather becomes a certainty.
Being an aficionado of "simulations" I want things as close to the actual data as possible but am willing to accept a margin of error either way. I say adjust the FW-190 data to as close to the Luftwaffe Specs as possible BUT I for one do not think the AH 190's are at this time a good simulation of the 190 as a fighter.
This opinion is based on the following as already posted in the "190A8 vs Spit" thread to another player.
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As for the clipped wing Spits. It helped reduce the rollrate and improved low altitude performance but it was not the answer to the FW-190A. That distinction went to the Griffon powered Spits
http://www.wwiitech.net/main/britain/aircraft/spitfire/------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously therefore, steps had to be taken immediately to counter this new and very dangerous threat. One of the first steps was to clip the wings of the Spitfire V's, thus improving their low-altitude capability enough to be able to rival the Fw-190. This was not however, an adequate upgrade, and it was clear that a new model would be required. This came in the form of the Spitfire Mk IX. The Spitfire IX appeared with all three types of wing; the extended, standard and clipped wing, and also introduced a new armament configuration; a combination of two 20mm Hispano cannon and two .50-inch Browning machine guns. The Mk IX did not solve the problem of the Fw-190, but when combined with new Hawker Typhoon aircraft, did help the situation. The Mk IX was fitted with a higher-powered version of the Merlin, the Merlin 61, rated at 1,660hp. 5,665 Spitfire Mk IX's were produced. The Mk X was powered by a 1,650hp Merlin 77 engine, and the Mk XI was powered by either a 1,760hp Merlin 63, or a Merlin 70 rated at 1,665hp.
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The data I have says the two A/C are pretty close in the initial climb with the Spit IX leaving the 190 behind at high altitude.
Some food for thought on the combat value of the marginal advantage the Spit 9 did have:
Being a lower wingloaded A/C the spit will climb at a slower speed and steeper angle. It will end up above the FW-190 at the end of the climb.
The FW-190 climbs at a faster speed and shallower angle. If the spit follows directly it will be left behind. This was the case in Dogfights between the two.
The Spitfire pilot climbs at his best speed. He is above the 190 but now must close the Horizontal gap so he dives.The 190 pilot simply dives too. The spitfire cannot catch him in a dive and worse case will follow him to the deck were the 190's top speed is greater. End result - 190 retains the advantage in the fight.
This is why Spit pilots didn't fight 190's in the vertical. The 190's roll advantage, zoom climb, and speed leveled the playing field making the deciding factor pilot skill.
You don't see this in AH at all. The Fw-190 is reduced to clumsy easily avoided attacks in the vertical. It does not posses the manuverability advantage of the actual FW-190. FW-190 pilots got in close and fought in the verticle because they had some real manuvering advantages. Try the classic 190 manuver of turning until the Spit begins to gain in the turn, flick out of the turn circle, dive and zoom climb above. The AH2 spitfire 9 will follow you with no difficulty and shoot you down. Test pilots with radio communication anticipating the manuver COULD NOT follow a 190 in the Merlin Spit. Even the Spitfire Mk 14 had great difficultly WITH radio notification following a 190A in this manuver.
AH2 is not a correct simulation of the fighting between these great fighters. Facts are the 190 was MORE manuverable than the Spitfire 9 in flight with the exception of sustained turn radius.
Do not confuse advantages with domination. The Griffon powered spits DOMINATED the 190A. In the Merlin powered Spit IX niether dominated the other in reality. Each had it's advantages and the checks and balances between the two leveled the playing field. It should be one of the most nail biting fights in the game given equal energy states at the merger.
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Many great facts and details about the handling characteristics of the 190 can be found in these documents:
http://prodocs.netfirms.com/Nashwan posted this link in another thread. It's the same allied test flight info I have. Try to reproduce these test's in AH.
I do have several performance charts on the 190 that I have not seen posted in these forums. They will posted on Mandobles site this week.
Crumpp
