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Author Topic: 190A5 deck speed  (Read 4512 times)

Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2004, 04:10:41 PM »
Mando look at Neil's conversion chart. 47.3 = 8.5 lbs per square inch = 1.63 or so ata.

Funked quoted from the a8 manual that 3 types of wep were used.

1. Just runnning a higher ata with no boost agent (I cant recall ata, 1.58 maybe?)

2. C3 - injection

3. GM1

GM1 was never serialized.

Crumpp

You said this:

Quote
Looking at the 190A5 chart and a 190A8 using 1.42ata C3 boost the average increase in level speed over 1.32ata is about 25-30 kph.


"Look at the chart" implies the chart in this thread. Neither the A-8 chart Verm posted nor the A-5 chart Mandoble posted in this thread have a curve for C-3 injection.
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2004, 04:26:30 PM »
No but they have the Manifold pressure for C3 boost.

I just got an email from the LuftArchive.  The pilots handbooks I ordered for the 190A5-9 have been shipped. In addition I have the technical manual for the 190A7 thru 190A9.  If they don't answer some of these questions then I will get the BMW-801 Technical Manual.

Crumpp
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #77 on: June 19, 2004, 05:11:50 PM »
Wotan,

From what I understand.  The lines for GM-1 were installed on the 190's from the A5 til the series end.   The GM-1 boost system was not available however and not used due to technical problems.
A kit was installed at the Geschwader technical shops for C3 boost which tapped into those lines.

With the A8 GM-1 kits (tank installed, lines are run on the production line) are available for the A/C.  It could be installed by the Geschwader maintenance shops.

However there is quite a bit of conflicting information out there on FW-190 boost systems.  

Think I will just purchase the BMW 801D-2 manual.  Solve a bunch of this speculation.  Especially since Pyro is going to be looking at the FM.  Might as well get the source and use it.

Crumpp
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #78 on: June 19, 2004, 05:51:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Mando look at Neil's conversion chart. 47.3 = 8.5 lbs per square inch = 1.63 or so ata.


Then that conversion chart is wrong, 190A5 42.5" MAN would result in 1.46 ata instead 1.42 ata.  Our 190A8 is doing exactly 1.58 ata at sea level on WEP.

1 ata = 14.69 psi = 30 MAN"
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #79 on: June 19, 2004, 06:59:02 PM »
See this thread:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117523&highlight=Math

1 ata is not 1 ATM (14.69 psi)

1 ata = 1kg/cm^2 = 14.2 lbs/in^2 = 28.96 inHg

An ata is NOT 1 atmosphere.

I learned this just a few months ago myself
« Last Edit: June 19, 2004, 07:23:02 PM by Wotan »
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2004, 07:17:07 PM »
fyi,

Neil's chart is right

(5.5 psi * 2.04 ) + 29.92 = 41.14 in Hg

41.14 in HG / 28.96 = 1.42 ata

(8.4 psi * 2.04) + 29.92 = 47.056 in Hg

47.056 in Hg / 28.96 = 1.62 ata

In that thread you will see Pyro made the same error you did.
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2004, 07:31:25 PM »
Interesting...Thanks for the info.

I always assumed it was Atmosphere Absolute as opposed to ATM.  I use ata in my calculations for diving.

Crumpp
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Offline Wotan

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #82 on: June 19, 2004, 07:56:10 PM »
So did I until I was talking with a guy in il2. I then came here and asked.

BPNZ, HoHun and Butch convinced me.

Pyro believed the same so we are in good company I guess...
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #83 on: June 19, 2004, 07:56:58 PM »
In that case, any german plane in AH is running with higher MAN than they should.

In any case, the increase on MAN between A5 and A8 just like jumping from 1.42 to 1.58. Asuming our A5 is modeled for 1.42, our A8 will reach no more than 1.58.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2004, 07:59:40 PM by GODO »
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #84 on: June 19, 2004, 08:19:06 PM »
Huh?

Crumpp
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Offline GODO

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #85 on: June 19, 2004, 08:44:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Huh?


AH 190A8 is running at 47.2" MAN on WEP. 190A5 at 42.5" MAN on WEP, a difference of 4.7" HG, so 0.16ata.

Asuming our A5 should be doing 1.42 ata on WEP, our A8 is actually doing 1.58ata.

Then, the correct numbers for 190's " MAN should be 41.1" MAN for 190A5 and 45.8" MAN for 190A8, instead of 42.5 and 47.2 respectively.
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #86 on: June 19, 2004, 09:12:35 PM »
Got it.
Crumpp
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Offline Pyro

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #87 on: June 20, 2004, 08:56:23 AM »
Most of the German plane's have incorrect MP because I made the incorrect conversion pointed out above.  I had my hands too full to go back and correct them all before release and I'm not really too concerned about it right now as I want to see new MP gauges changed to their native units when we do some work on the gauges.  

The A8 in AH should be running at 1.58 ata at low blower and 1.65 ata at high blower.
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Offline Crumpp

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #88 on: June 20, 2004, 09:42:01 AM »
Keep truckin on Tour of Duty.  All this other stuff can sort itself later after TD's release.

I personally hate the MA and think TD is going to revolutionize. online flight sims.  WWII Online is a great concept but they have taken on too big a chunk with trying to do Land, Air, and Sea all at once with today's technology.

Fighter Ace has an excellent concept with it's Territorial Combat but it is not taken to the next level with missions.  Nor can a plyer hop in a tank and go after all those AI tanks/troops.  Besides the flight Model/views is so cartoonish that it puts FA on the same level as Unreal Tournament or Quake.

I think AH Tour do Duty time has come.  The Air war can be simulated very well with some elements of the ground conflict.  The mission based element is great and will give the players goals to achieve in the arena.  Lots more immersion, Lots of possibilities...

We know you got the 190's on the list and in the mean time we will try and get as much input from knowledgable sources including the spitfire experts in the community.  That way we can give the hard facts were they exist and a better best guess on the othersuff.  Thanks Again.

Take Care!

Crumpp
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Offline JG14_Josf

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190A5 deck speed
« Reply #89 on: October 16, 2004, 08:48:18 PM »
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=495105506&r=495105506#495105506

Crumpp,

Please take a look at the above web page if you get a chance. I've read your analysis concerning the simulation of relative performance capabilities and how these factors should translate into tactical application.

Energy fighting performance qualities include acceleration, climb, and top speed.

Angles fighting performance qualities include turn performance.

I do not wish to change flight sims, but it is a suprise to find someone who has made the same observation based upon many of the same sources.
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