Author Topic: COMMUNITY and #1  (Read 4323 times)

Offline TweetyBird

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2004, 01:02:48 PM »
>>maybe it will teach the community a lesson.<<

Yea, thats what they need to do:rolleyes:

Offline TweetyBird

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2004, 01:29:04 PM »
>>This burn the books thing doesn't seem to fit this situation IMHO. You wanna talk trash? Then go to 200 and talk trash, if that's what you wanna do. We all play we all pay. So why do I have to see all this grade school stuff if I would rather not?<<

That is the whole point - you NEVER *had* to see it. The problem is ch1 could not be permanantly disabled or perma squelched. Thats not the fault of the people using it saying things you don't care for. Thats the fault of the program.

Also on the burning books and rights stuff, I don't think anyone has posted that open communication or "fredom of speech"was a "right" when suscribing to HTC products. But certain constitutional rights also happen to be human ideals. I mean thats where Thomas Jefferson got his ideas  - from universal human ideals :)

 Unfettered communication seems to work well in *most* cases, and draconian methods tend to breed contempt in *most* cases. Maybe because the mind seems to be heterotrophic (thats a ch1 word for ya :))Of course there are exceptions, and I think the crux of this debate is whether or not this is an exception. I don't honestly think anyone who believes ch1 should be removed is a bonafide book burner :) You have to take some things tongue in cheek in a debate.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2004, 01:40:01 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline Simaril

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Back to Skuzzy
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2004, 02:13:41 PM »
Quote
For those advocating squelching as a good solution. Think about this. The people most likely to squelch ch1 are probably the ones which should have been on ch1 and the ones causing a person to squelch ch1, should not have been on ch1.


Exactly!! (if a little obtuse --like Bilbo at his birthday party) Skuzzy's point is the key to the issue.

The "good guys" are the ones who liked Ch1 for the community, the ability to chat about a dogfight, and the occasional taunt. (OK, and the ability to hear the dweebs whine.) The "bad guys" cursed, shouted, dragged for rants with inflammatory political or religious statements, and generally acted with the class of soccer hooligans. The "bad guys" don't care, so they don't squelch. The "good guys" either sit in the stands shaking their heads, ignore the riot's damage, or they leave the stadium by squelching 1.

We have to acknowledge that both these crowds were part of channel 1. Now, taking away the default CH1 radio setting isn't censorship, it's zoning -- a distinction that should be easy for anyone with any knowledge of history. [You can't compare  that inconvenience with trying to read Solzenhitzen or the Bible in the old USSR.] So, HTC was faced with the challenge of trying to preserve the community for the good guys, knowing that the libertarian approach would give the hooligans license to tear the stadium apart. Historically HTC tried several approaches, none of which were entirely successful or entirely satisfactory. There is no perfect solution, so don''t argue like there is one -- HTC is balancing between two competing priorities, open community exchange vs. waste containment. Both are valid community needs.


Some of these posts have been whines about change, like "trying on new shoes." Some have inflamed an attempted zoning change into assaults on the foundations of liberty. Lets (try) to be reasonable here -- channel 1 had problems, and HTC is TRYING SOMETHING to deal with those problems. Relax, guys -- if it works, it works. If it doesn't we'll try something else.

That said, I'd go for the idea of letting the community police itself. If anybody gets squelched by 50 people, they cant enter channel 1 text for an hour. Simple, reasonable, and probably effective. Meets the needs of the good guys, remains accessable for the newbies, teaches the hooligans some self control. Seems like a winner all around......
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Offline Grizzly

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2004, 03:08:07 PM »
Not ong ago I posted an opinion on Chan. one that AH2 was going to make it a lot harder to defend a base. Someone replied, "How so?". So I listed a number of factors, in successive comments. Then another player cursed at me. When I asked what his problem was, he said he was sick of seeing my comments on chan. one.

I often have no idea what is being said on the radio because I don't read it. It seems to me that some players who complain about the chatter on chan. one are a bit too intolerent. Like a player I knew who couldn't sleep at night knowing that players were porking his country's bases. Of course there's the whining and gutter talk, but to get rid of that HTC would have to eliminate all channels... and vox.

But why did HTC chop chan. one? I suppose he wanted to hide some of the crap from the innocent and new customers. After all, they don't want to lose accounts because of the in game hostility. But adding a perma-squelch, removing "all" from the menu, or even promoting the use of the squelch command would interfere with Skuzzy's and HiTech's communications with players. Although it's blue, it does use chan. one.

It was a reasonable thing to do, and not a big deal I guess.

grizzly

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Back to Skuzzy
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2004, 03:11:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
I'd go for the idea of letting the community police itself. If anybody gets squelched by 50 people, they cant enter channel 1 text for an hour. Simple, reasonable, and probably effective. Meets the needs of the good guys, remains accessable for the newbies, teaches the hooligans some self control. Seems like a winner all around......


With stuff like the Rook's Joint Operations and humungous squads happening in AH, I don't think a cumulative squelch setup would be wise  =o/

grizzly

Offline Elfie

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2004, 04:32:55 PM »
I'm glad I dont have to /.squelch 1 the first thing when I log in anymore. I have a 9 year old daughter that reads the chat buffer faster than I do :lol  Many of the things that were said and that went on on ch1 were inappropriate for her to see. Not sure why, but she loves to watch me play flight sims, I  can't count the hours she has spent next to me while I played AH and before that AirWarrior.

I am one that almost canceled my account because of the BS on 1 and no way to permanently get rid of it. I really dont care what others have to say about ch1, to many times the content on 1 was inappropriate for children.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline sling322

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2004, 04:43:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>maybe it will teach the community a lesson.<<

Yea, thats what they need to do:rolleyes:


Yeah it is.  If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem.  But as long as the "community" allows more and more crap on channel 1 the more loose folks get with it and it leads to HTC making a decision to cancel the use of it.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

Offline TDeacon

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2004, 06:04:28 PM »
quote:
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Yeah it is. If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem. But as long as the "community" allows more and more crap on channel 1 the more loose folks get with it and it leads to HTC making a decision to cancel the use of it.
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I like your implied suggestion Sling322.  If I understand it correctly, you are advocating the existence of channel 1, with community policing.  

Now all we have to do is think of a mechanism, or combination of mechanisms, to implement this.  I suggest the following problem decomposition:

1)  A posted set of standards for conduct on channel 1.  (I know some of this is "obvious", but posted standards would help for the less obvious behaviors).  Call this "topic A".  

2)  A means of community enforcement.  CAll this "topic B".  

BTW, I'm not saying HTC is interested in this input, but it can't hurt; maybe people would have good ideas which he might use in future.

Offline 68bear

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Community
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2004, 06:20:10 PM »
The community is strong and with channel 1 gone now, it seems theres less bickering.  Thank You  HTC and the Staff at Aces High.

Offline urb

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2004, 06:43:55 PM »
Crap now i miss my old shoes!!!

Offline TDeacon

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2004, 06:44:21 PM »
On "topic B":

The solution should be "layered", in that there would be an ordered set of mechanisms.  The "lowest" layer would address some of the channel 1 problem, the "next lowest" layer would address some of what remained after being filtered by the "lowest" layer, etc.  

Example:

1)  Layer 0:  Software mechanism which removes certain words, as on this BB.  Example:  "Hitech is a *******".  

2)  Layer 1:  Software mechanism to support designated human channel 1 monitors.  One idea:

a)  Dot command, with player ID as input parameter, to capture contents of text monitor, possibly just contents from that player ID.  This would be stored in a temporary evidence buffer.  Radio message automatically sent to miscreant as initial warning.  Example:  "TDeacon, your recent comments include violation of code of conduct at .  If this continues, you will be banned from channel 1 for 48 hours".  

b)  Assume that miscreant continues to violate the standard.  A second dot command would add the miscreant's subsequent text buffer inputs to the evidence buffer, send a ban notification message to the miscreant, send a record of this action including text to HTC, and automatically implement the ban.  Miscreant could still play and use other channels, but is off channel 1 for 48 hours.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2004, 06:47:47 PM by TDeacon »

Offline TweetyBird

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2004, 07:41:09 PM »
>> If the "community" that you guys are clamoring over needing for the game to survive would take a little responsibility and police themselves we wouldnt have this problem.<<

Well the ones squelching ch1 sure weren't policing it. A lot of people tried to shame those misusing the channel, but shaming an idiot is almost impossible.

I have another fix. Open Ch1, but your icon lights up on the radar when you type on it :) - less scrolling and less childish behavior. Hmmm- that could be fun...

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2004, 07:43:45 PM by TweetyBird »

Offline FT_Animal

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2004, 08:48:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fffreeze220
Whats the difference between 200 or 1 ??? There is no.
But we could need an OC like in AW that would be a ncie improvement.


Not that it's at all the same,... but the new AHTH site has a officers club similar to AW. Made as a VB download proggie it will do much the same and more. ;-)  It's just not an actual game interface. It's also not done ;-)


Offline FT_Animal

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COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2004, 08:50:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FT_Animal
Not that it's at all the same,... but the new AHTH site has a officers club similar to AW. Made as a VB download proggie it will do much the same and more. ;-)  It's just not an actual game interface. It's also not done ;-)



oops didn't post,.. damn owell

Offline sax

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Re: COMMUNITY and #1
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2004, 11:30:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Silat


I believe a strong (with teeth) and visual Moderator/Training corp would be the glue that holds the community together. This would have stopped 99% of the bad behavior on #1.
                              :D


Agreed--200 is heading the same way and unless something is done about it HT will eventually remove everything but Squad channel and .s
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