Author Topic: Saw moors film (Read 4395 times)

NUKE · « **Reply #120 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:04:10 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Nash
It's not rare, Nuke.

It's more than rare. Unbiased documentaries don't exist.

I changed my icon

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #121 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:10:25 AM »

Sure RPM I read that too.

But Moore's film said that all recounts showed Gore to be a winner.

Thats simply a lie...

But I am happy that you think you found a way to get around that lie.

rpm · « **Reply #122 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:13:07 AM »

Yes, all recounts that include those votes show Gore to be the winner. Stay Down Rocky!

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #123 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:15:36 AM »

Now you are changing the statement in question to fit this nice data I gave you...

Well done!

So like I said earlier...

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ

You either like the guy, his politics and his work or you dont, it seems to simply come down to that...

Thanks for illustrating my point RPM...

Have a good night.

Murdr · « **Reply #124 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:24:04 AM »

Here is the graphs from the Times btw. They have to count illegal overvotes for Gore to win, overvotes are the ballots they are refering too.

In any event much to the Times dismay no doubt, that had the recount not been stopped with the USSC decision Bush would have won that count. Cant claim all.

rpm · « **Reply #125 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:32:25 AM »

Sorry if your own link turned against you Grun.

Those "illegal" votes are what came into question. If you see the movie "Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election" it goes into great detail about these votes and the political wrangling by the Republicans surrounding them. It's very interesting.

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #126 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:46:10 AM »

Grunhertz making an idiot of himself again?

Murdr · « **Reply #127 on:** June 27, 2004, 04:52:43 AM »

Ok, so let me get this straight. You change the direction of the thread citing To my understanding a full recount was never done per Florida law. Overvotes are not legal in any state. Even when they vote Al Gore, and then also vote in the write in columb for Al Gore. But then cling to 'well more people meant to vote for Gore' even when they dont comply to Flordia law. So which is it? Your are or are not concerned with things being done legally?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #128 on:** June 27, 2004, 05:05:38 AM »

Murdr just look the exchange between me and RPM above, he is just shifting his agruments and goals to suit whatever problems come up with his thinkging or his prejudices. I show him data that proves moore was lying in the movie and then he shifts the question to something else entirely...

There is no point discussing it with him.

He needs to belive one thing and thats the way its going to me for him.

It's pointless nad very very predictable.

rpm · « **Reply #129 on:** June 27, 2004, 06:25:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Murdr just look the exchange between me and RPM above, he is just shifting his agruments and goals to suit whatever problems come up with his thinkging or his prejudices. I show him data that proves moore was lying in the movie and then he shifts the question to something else entirely...

There is no point discussing it with him.

He needs to belive one thing and thats the way its going to me for him.

It's pointless nad very very predictable.

Grun, I'm not twisting anything. I may concede that not EVERY recount after the election showed Gore the winner. Not every recount included all votes. That Florida election was as screwed up and manipulated as it gets. I'm not sure Moore used the word EVERY either. He may well have.

Quote

The newspapers' review also discovered that canvassing boards in Palm Beach and Broward counties threw out hundreds of ballots that had marks that were no different from ballots deemed to be valid.

The papers concluded that Gore would be in the White House today if those ballots had been counted.

I will stand behind disproving your link. They say if all the votes were counted Gore would have won. Can we agree on that point?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #130 on:** June 27, 2004, 06:35:19 AM »

I will agree that obviously the florida election was a debacle and that either candidate would coume out with lower legitemacy after it. It was a poor showing for the world's greatest democrcay and i hope we never go throught that sort of thiong again.

As far as counting "all" votes?

Well if by "all" you mean, as the article does, counting these special types of ballots only in Plam Beach and Broward counties (both of which are overwhelmingly democtraic) then yes Gore could have won. But what about the rest of the state and the more republican counties?

rpm · « **Reply #131 on:** June 27, 2004, 06:41:43 AM »

Quote

As far as counting "all" votes?

Well if by "all" you mean, as the article does, counting these special types of ballots only in Plam Beach and Broward counties (both of which are overwhelmingly democtraic) then yes Gore could have won. But what about the rest of the state and the more republican counties?

I'm speaking of the votes that would have passed as legit in the other counties but were thrown out.

Every vote should be treated the same in every county, but it wasn't. Who knows who really received the most votes? I don't.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #132 on:** June 27, 2004, 06:47:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by rpm371
I'm speaking of the votes that would have passed as legit in the other counties but were thrown out.

Every vote should be treated the same in every county, but it wasn't. Who knows who really received the most votes? I don't.

We dont know how votes were counted in the other counties, who is to say that some republican areas dd not undercount hundreds of Bush votes. Obviously we can go on like this forever, even arguing in good faith. It's a convoluted situation that showed some serious weaknesses in our election systems.

So basically nobody knows. Thats why we had all sorts of talking about voters "intent" and some other concepts nad thats why you and i are arguing about this now.

I think we both know that either side would say the other guy stole the election if their guy lost...

I just hope its fixed this year and that we dont go through that BS again...

Pongo · « **Reply #133 on:** June 27, 2004, 09:06:37 AM »

Moore did say "every" recount.
Moore didnt say "bush said the planes could fly"

He said the administration.
If I remember correctly.

Wonder if Moore will be able to get it on TV before the election?

The way the movie starts with just a blank screen and the sounds of 9/11. Then all people looking up and crying..and then the paper chits floating everywhere is really something.

Pongo · « **Reply #134 on:** June 27, 2004, 09:11:29 AM »

Its certainly easy to make it confusing.
The blacks that where illegaly struck off the voters lists because they had the same last name as an ex felon though..thats not confusing at all. And the Bush brothers are setting up to do it again. The republicans are trying to get the same technology going in other states for November.
This year there will be electronic voting devices..they dont leave any inconvientent paper behind to get recounted. Your state attourney general can just
"Delete * from votes where voter race = 'the enemy'" and there they go!
So there will be more controversy. But less proof.