Steve, your icon request has been implemented

[mora]

Originally posted by Kweassa
It's a step in the wrong direction.

 But not such an unreasonable compromise I guess. People just can't do without the "take one-look, instantly determine E states" feature.

 It'd be more reasonable if it was removed inside 2.0, but I think I can live with what is now.

Exactly.

[Flossy]

Originally posted by J_A_B
AirWarrior originally used a very unique system.  The ICONS weren't on-screen but, rather, were off to the sides.  

That system was before my time..... when I played we had full screen view and a choice of how icons were displayed - short or long.  Short icons was only 3 characters for plane-type or CPID, and the distances were expressed as 1.1K, 1.2K, 1.3K etc.  Long icons showed up to 5 characters of plane-type or CPID and had the same distance indicators we used to have in AH1.  I always used to use long icons as my personal preference - partly because of the way short icons shortened the CPIDs, which got confusing for any that started with the same three letters.  

[Callisto]

Noo... icons without +/- were just great... had to stare at a con for a bit to determine if its +/-...
 

hope icons are all gone in AH3

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by Kweassa
It's a step in the wrong direction.

 But not such an unreasonable compromise I guess. People just can't do without the "take one-look, instantly determine E states" feature.

 It'd be more reasonable if it was removed inside 2.0, but I think I can live with what is now.

Explain the reason why you think its a step in the wrong direction? Besides the fact that you personally like saturation err emersion? Wouldnt it be great if it was KAH2? Kweassa's Aces High2? Either remove Icons completely or just settle for any other variant. It really doesnt matter. If you have icons then it matters not what variant of the crutch you need or like. But i do lean to Steves suggestion.. use AH1 icon system if your going to bother having icons at all. At least there would be some security in a familar setting/element from AH1 while adapting to change.

[Kweassa]

Explain the reason why you think its a step in the wrong direction? Besides the fact that you personally like saturation err emersion? Wouldnt it be great if it was KAH2? Kweassa's Aces High2?

 Reason is self evident, not to mention been discussed a zillion times.

 Besides, it's the system initially tried out with AH2 beta versions, which people who participated in the betas for a extended time, have gotten used to, and came to realize that it made sense - making the air combat more immersive and intense than anything before.

 Then comes along those people who spent all those lovely evenings in AH1 MA, ignored recommendations to try out AH2 beta and get used to it, prepare for the changes, and etc etc... They tried out AH2 for like what? 2 weeks now? And invent all these elaborate excuses about how they can't get used to it on grounds of 'reality' or 'gameplay'.

 KAH? Oh no sir, it ain't only me. It definately ain't only me.

Either remove Icons completely or just settle for any other variant. It really doesnt matter. If you have icons then it matters not what variant of the crutch you need or like. But i do lean to Steves suggestion.. use AH1 icon system if your going to bother having icons at all. At least there would be some security in a famillar setting/element from AH1.

 Nice try, dude.

 Then by reverse logic, since it really doesn't matter, people shouldn't have whined like pimps getting their first bust in the first place.

 Apparently, it seems clear how the icons are  implemented does matter, and does have different effects. And those "effects", some people don't like.

 For what reason? Glaringly obvious isn't it? All the people who took time to get used to it and learn what it implies obviously had no problems in doing their everyday flight - as compared to those trying AH2 for 2 weeks and then gasping for clemency. That tells us a lot.

[Steve]

Ya, it tells me that you like immersion more than some people do.  It also tells me that you think anyone who is not into the same immersion as you is somehow inferior and a whiner for posting their views.

Why don't you build a "cockpit": around your computer, paint your ceiling w/ cool ack bursts and the colors of a Berlin sky...maybe even Pacific, hang airplanes from string... maybe make a giant ground diarama w/ your floor?  That way when you look over the side of your "cockpit" you'll really feel immersed.

Then comes along those people who spent all those lovely evenings in AH1 MA, ignored recommendations to try out AH2 beta and get used to it

This is convenient for you... but inaccurate in my case.

[Creamo]

lol, owned.

I'd like to see the old system restored entirely.

Of course. It's almost as bad as changing the view system. All you guys that are so clever "hiding your "E" " would accept a more realistic 6 view now as well? Sure you would.

[Kweassa]

Ya, it tells me that you like immersion more than some people do. It also tells me that you think anyone who is not into the same immersion as you is somehow inferior and a whiner for posting their views.

 Bullshi* Steve. It's not just about the immersive qualites as in "ooh, I can't hit anything anymore".

 It's about the long process of trying out the icons, getting used to it, and then realizing how it made sense - which is a process none of the folks who are complaining about it went through.

Why don't you build a "cockpit": around your computer, paint your ceiling w/ cool ack bursts and the colors of a Berlin sky...maybe even Pacific, hang airplanes from string... maybe make a giant ground diarama w/ your floor? That way when you look over the side of your "cockpit" you'll really feel immersed.

 
 Completely irrelvant and you know it.

This is convenient for you... but inaccurate in my case.

 Like those cases you showed up and played for 5 minutes, comment "this sucks, I'm off to the MA", and then you were gone?

[Steve]

Like those cases you showed up and played for 5 minutes,

Nice try. You should try to get a  job working for Michael Moore.

Completely irrelvant and you know it.

No it isn't.  You like immersion.  keep me posted on your progress.

[Boozer2]

Originally posted by Steve
Ya, it tells me that you like immersion more than some people do.  

      Hmm, whats the antithesis of immersion, quake?

It also tells me that you think anyone who is not into the same immersion as you is somehow inferior and a whiner for posting their views.  

      natch

Why don't you build a "cockpit": around your computer, paint your ceiling w/ cool ack bursts and the colors of a Berlin sky...maybe even Pacific, hang airplanes from string... maybe make a giant ground diarama w/ your floor?  That way when you look over the side of your "cockpit" you'll really feel immersed.
 

    Cockpit stuff is expensive and takes up too much room but I got the plane on string hanging, P-47D-25, 16 inch sucker I saw at Walmart for 35$, no background art on the walls or floor, but I do tune cable TV to the Big Band channel for '40s theme music!

    Immersion is the reason to play, else you're just doin another FPS

[Steve]

I rest my case.

[Creamo]

Oh man, too funny...

[214thCavalier]

The new icon system is part of the changes that are making it harder for many to get kills.

While your taking longer to get a kill, generally you get a better fight out of it.

Personally i hope we never get a return to the inch perfect laser range finder.

And Mugzee surely your old enough now to be brave enough to drop the security blanket ?


Btw would you also not like and refuse to fly if the fading in and out icons that were tried in beta were returned ?

[OIO]

Dale, have you guys given any thought on implementing WW2OL's icon system?


I know it might not be something you guys would like to do..'copy' someone else's ideas.. but from the way I see it, if it works so good, why not use it to make the overall game experience so much better?

I despise WW2OL's arcade flight system and their Atari2600 gunnery model... but their icon system is so incredibly good it makes the air combat portion of the game be a thrill, even if the flight and gunnery models are arcadish... because its so realistic that you have to constantly scan around AND you get jumped and can jump others, makes teamwork be a must... all because the icons dont pop up instantly giving away target info.


Why not adapt this icon system into AH2? Make the icons just show the basic airframe name (aka spit1 and spit14 show as 'spit', 190 and 152's show as 'FW') . Make icons alpha blend into view depending on how long you've been looking at it....

aka,  dot straight ahead ... after 3 seconds of looking straight ahead the icon fades into view letting you see what it is, planes merge,  the icon remains solid for 5 seconds even if you're not looking at it, then it begins to fade away if you dont keep looking at it.

As far as a range indicator, I think its NOT needed. At all. Use + and - icons next ot the plane name to show your rate of closure. I say this because you can tell the distance between you and your target by using simple eyesight..if its a dot then its beyond 6.0 , if its in d4.0 or closer you use your gunsight to compare the 'size' of target to your own gunsight...just like real ww2 pilots did.

Or something similar. I just dont like to be given instant info on everything around me..it makes for poor gameplay since it removes the ability of the 'bounce' because in AH1 and now even in AH2, all you need to do is do snap-views, scan each view of the sky for like .1 seconds and one instantly knows that 2 of the 3 planes behind you are enemy and are at X range, above and to all sides theres X number of enemies and their exact info... it just no fun at all.

Again, in ww2ol even with their ****ty flight model, its the icon system that makes the game so immersive in the air.. that dot on your 3 oc .. squint your eyes at it for a few seconds and a pale icon comes out and lets you know if its hostile or not..but no exact info on range or anything.. but whoa! con at 9 oc is enemy! You turn to it, you realize you are closing on it (target image becomes slightly larger) dive under his wings to come up from his belly... and all the time the enemy pilot did not spot you ..all because he was not able to snap view to his high 3 oc and instantly see the big bad enemy icon..he was jumped. and died because he had no wingman that helped him scan the sky.

[Burnm]

Ya know it seems to me that the icon change was brought about by "whiners" complaining about 800 yard "laser" shots.These are the people usually trying to run away from a fight,flying straight and level,no jinking and then whine about an 800 yard hit.Seems to me if your flying straight and level a .50 cal would have no problem hitting you at 800 yrds..Maybe you should try avoiding the shot instead of trying to out run it,then complain about unrealistic gunnery modeling.I personally have gotten quite a few kills over 800 yards in AH1,and im still getting pings at 1k in AH2.Id suggest ya might wanna turn that stick thingy till your outta range.I liked the old icon system and im dissapointed it was changed to please a few whiners who cant deal with being shot down while trying to run away."Dont run you'll only die tired" Burnm P.S. How can you even talk about realism when youve got spits fightin spits??lol