Soon all that liked the 1.03 FM are gone...

[maik]

<What Kirin said>!!!!!!!!


Maik

[bowser]

"More than once I experienced those 180-and-still-gain-on-you-while-you-did-not-pull-the-slightest-E-turns..."
I don't know how many times we've heard this, and still no film.  For all the times it supposedly happened, you'd think someone would have film.

If you have the alt advantage and BnZ a TnB con, you control the fight..you can engage and disengage at will.  If you try and turn with him, you should lose.  I don't understand the problem...the fact that he can now avoid you with a break turn?  If he goes slightly nose down on a break turn, why should he lose E?

"If T&B was the only way historic engagements worked..."
Huh?..who said that?

bowser

[Jekyll]

 

If he goes slightly nose down on a break turn, why should he lose E?

Because total energy is a combination of both airspeed and altitude.  By going nose-low the opponent is automatically sacrificing energy UNLESS at the same time he is increasing his airspeed sufficiently to regain his previous altitude and airspeed.

A 'break' turn is by definition a max G turn, and any max G turn, even a split S, is going to burn energy.

Unless you're in a Nik, of course  

[funked]

Well said, Lazs!!!

[VISCONTI]

Well, if u stay low whit 1.03 FM u can live whit no problems.
Just learn how to avoid B&Z strato alt fiters. I did that in my poor c205, i was always under B&Z attak and I have won most of these attak (why climb to 25k when u can fight at 15k and win??).
If players use only G10 (mommy mommy let me run) P-51 (see G10) or others fast AC the result is that, everyone run away cause is not capaple to fight if in disadvantage (anyway hystorical accurate IMO)!!!

Whit 1.04 they just give at certein planes an incredible advantage that forced most player to use only these planes (F4U-C, Niki, Spit IX). Whit the Ammo/damage model we have yet these planes rules. U can find dweb pilots on these AC and kill them whitout problem but an average pilot can perform very well (if his SA is poor then is killable). Where is the balance mentioned in 1.04????

<S> kirin nice post.

[AKSeaWulfe]

I'm confused.. do we want balance between the planes or a realistic FM?

Seems the ones that say 1.03 was more correct throw in "balance" somewhere in their statement and something like "realistic FM". Balancing planes with one another in no way resembles a realistic FM.
1.04 is good, I fly a 190A5 and the only planes I fear is a bunch of them on my ass.

Energy bleed is very much present, maybe not so much as in 1.03, but that's because there was too much drag on the control surfaces for 1.03. So far, no one has produced numbers saying that 1.03 was accurate and 1.04 was not, it's all been "this can't be..." "this shouldn't happen".. and the rest.
-SW

[niklas]

the N1K bleeds E like any other Fighter. It only seems to have almost no torque effect, which allows a pilot to zoom up until 50MPH or less without getting in a spin.

Add a realitic (brutal) torque for a 2000Hp engine below 100Mph and some strange manoevres wonīt happen anymore.

I often fly G10 and often think when i watch a N1K: UNPOSSIBLE, unbelievable.
But i also flew a N1K, once against a good G10, and i thought myself: UNPOSSIBLE, UNBELIEVABLE what this G10 can do...

1.04 is way better imo. Best thing in 1.03 you could do in a 109 was to let the machine run, or to do as little as possible to build up E.
1.04 you can do some nice things now. You can  act now, and itīs not always the machine that gave you the advantage at the end.

People are leaving because itīs too easy now? Pah, they wouldnīt leave when they have more success now. They got shot down more often in 1.04? So, is it harder now, or easier...?

niklas

[bowser]

"A 'break' turn is by definition a max G turn, and any max G turn, even a split S, is going to burn energy."

I've never heard it defined that way.  Also, we may be confusing energy with speed.  My reply was to a post that used the term E but obviously meant speed.  It bothered him that after several break turns the TnB plane wasn't wallowing at slow speed like in the good 'ol days.
At most I'll pull enough Gs so that I'm on the edge of blackout (around 5g), just enough so a high speed con can't turn with me.  Certainly not max Gs, otherwise I can't view the con.  If the con is really motoring you hardly have to pull/turn at all because his turn radius is so large, he can't pull lead.
As for losing speed/e, if your diving slightly at the same time your turning, your not going to lose speed.  Obviously if the con keeps BnZing you, you're going to continually lose alt, but you're going to be able too maintain your speed.


bowser


[This message has been edited by bowser (edited 11-24-2000).]

[RAM]

In 1.03 I used to take a Fw190A5, and go up to 15K. rarely higher. Many times lower.

Some can say that the A5 in 1.03 was uber. Ok, I did just the same with the P51, ACTUALLY CLOSE FIGHTING IN IT (I.E. no running like a chicken if I see someone with 2mph more of speed or 4 feet more of altitude. like most 51 drivers used to do). I got exactly (I mean EXACTLY) same results

Being bounced by cons all day long. All day long. I mean, ALL day long  

K/D 3, aprox. And I used to be bounced by multiple cons...and stay in the fight. And winning it.

in fact one of my most funny entertainings was to go into the TA, and ask someone there to bounce me with 5-10K of altitude over me (at 2-3K in a Fw190 with 4 cannons and 50% fuel). 90% of the times the fite ended with me winning.


I wont say 1.03 was more or less realistic. I say that anyone who says that in 1.03 the one lower was death is a completely inutil pilot, or the lousier stick ever.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-25-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by niklas:

1.04 is way better imo. Best thing in 1.03 you could do in a 109 was to let the machine run, or to do as little as possible to build up E.

Niklas, contact me. I have a couple of films in 109G10 close fighting use in 1.03.

Either you never flew a G10 in 1.03, or you had no idea on how to use one.

[-lazs-]

ram... obviously i wasn't talking about someone with your god like abilities...  I meant that given anything like equal pilots those results were assured.   Bet i can find a few guys that would kill you every time using a 2k advantage while you were in a 1.03 version 190 tho.

Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes?   Is it that advantage that you miss?  

visco... adjusting FM's for balance doesn't really work.   WWII planes had strengths and weaknesses.   If you adjust the FM by say... blurring the turn rates, then, the high wing loading planes give up nothing while the low wing loading planes are unfairly handicaped.   It appears that you choose to fly only high wing loaded planes.   That is fine.   You should be able to mix it up with other high wing loaded planes but... A skilled pilot in a low wing loaded plane should be immune from a clumsy B&Z attack (just like in WWII).   No problem right?   don't get low and slow in a crowd with your high wingload plane and they can't hurt ya.   certainly, you will still have the advantage if you use a little skill.    
lazs

[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 11-25-2000).]

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by -lazs-:

Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes?   Is it that advantage that you miss?

Obviosly you didn't flew 1.03.

and note that i said that I did it with a P51  

[jihad]

 RAM-just ignore Spaz,he`s into circle jerks. <TnB>  

[Dingy]

I cant agree with your assessment that the strategy of ACM has been lost in 1.04.  E management is just as important now as it was before and just as often as I have used a better E state in a poorer turning plane to beat another, so have other pilots done to me.  E fighting is alive and well, my friends, and dont think its just a T&B arena.  Plenty of us 51, Tiffy, 190 and 109G10 pilots in here who will say they cant turn worth sh*T yet they rack up kills.  They fly those planes the way they were supposed to be flown....using E fighting tactics.

You give me a 2-3K lower Nik or Spit and 90% of the time, its going to be dead.  Zekes on the other hand are very difficult for me to kill since they can turn on a dime forever, but that is another story.  

-Ding

[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 11-25-2000).]

[Jekyll]

 

Oh, ram... you do realize that the 190A5 was the first of the "new" fm's and it was really a 1.04 version plane flying against 1.03 planes?

Lazs, its good to see your honesty hasn't changed since you first made your name on the WB board.

You are still an inveterate liar.

------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps