I hate to make a post like this, but am bewildered...

[StSanta]

What's so good about WB 2.76?

I downloaded it to check it out.

After five minutes, I wondered whether I, by mistake, had downloaded the wrong version; maybe a very early beta. Everything seemed off.

So I downloaded it again, with all the graphic patches and stuff.

But the game was the same.

Horrible inertia modelling - the 190 for instance had an initial roll rate comparable to the spit, until you've rolled a bit. Then it sped up.

And kept going. "Huh!?!" I thought, maybe this is the way it is in real life. Then again, I've tried flying a cessna and the cessna was crisp and responsible in the roll compared to this.

Oh well, maybe it is something I get used to.

Took a look at the view system. Well, it is somethin akin to a view system; it allows you to, uhm, view around. Not particularly well, mind you, but I guess you could call it a view system.

Engine revving up in a dive? Weird.

Ok, let's to some aerobatics. Stick full back, up into a hammerhead. Waiting for stall horn. "Beep". Uhm. Plane goes a bit more over, then locks there, and then goes nose down in an instant. Interesting.

Pick up speed, let's yanks this baby around. Full stick deflection. Ho humm. Ok speed is dropping, but apparently, this bird is equipped with a nifty anti high AoA system. Not sure what alt I am at since depth perception is nil, zero zap, nada.

Judging the e state of enemy aircraft is odd, and overall the flight model feels like someone had taken a physicist and an aeronautical engineer, given them ether, made them construct a flight simulator, then given it to me and put me on LSD. Weirdo, man, far out dude. Not what I was expecting, but hey, tune in turn on....burn out

Good sides; metric cockpits (listen up HTC  ), realistic gun counters (you've done it before HT, do it again) and, to me, a feeling of "let's get the details right, for their own sake. Let's not use ammo counters so we can cater to more customers".

Unfortunately, one or two good details doesn't make a combat sim.


Before this, I had no real opinion on WB, blasting it for fun because of the rivalry that exists  .

Now, I am not sure why people bother flying it.

I must be missing something.

Obviously, what I downloaded must be a 1988 beta version.

Something is amiss.

It must be said that the reason I checked it out is because I don't think the perk project is a good idea AT ALL. Quite the contrary. I'm a wee bit tired of fighting nikis, hogs, other LW planes ina big melee. Also wondering about the heavy catering to players who like US planes - VVS has no jabo, LW has no jabo; what is added? Another two US jabos.

The trend worries me a bit. I still love AH, and after seeing the competition, gotta say that this is the best out there. Period. Even if perk project turns out to be a nightmare, it'll *still* be the best. If all US planes that ever existed ar modelled before any vvs/German jabos, it still rules.

I'm staying, dammit. Aces High is the king of the hill, and I've come to realize that my complaints/issues with AH are really minor.

But if anyone could enlighten me about WBII I'd appreciate it. The file I downloaded is called wb2full276 - is it the wrong one?

Is the roll rate/depth perception/LSD stuff supposed to be there, or is it my puter acting up again?

Not slamming WB - just very curious about this.
<S!>

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[hblair]

INCOMING!!!!

<ducks into foxhole>

[-towd_]

anyone try combat flight sim 2 yet how is the model there ?

[Westy]

 StSanta were all the realism settings on?

 Not discounting what you're sayin by any means, believe me. I am just trying to warm you up for the inevitable cross examination by the incoming prosecution team of Emme-Jee, Cabby and Jekyl of the Dewey, Cheetum and Howe Law firm.

  -Westy

[Hangtime]

Yah.. WB's is dead.. at least to me.  

And like you; I'm lookin fer SOMEPLACE every NIGHT where I can go and face down adverarys in adversary A/C... and not, as you say; nicki's zekes; chogs typies spits and ponies.

Instead; I wanna fly against guys like you in TRUE adversary iorn.. not fly quakebirds.

I too cast a vote fer a HA.. and hope that HTC reconsiders the situation.

<sigh>

Hang

[VISCONTI]

My last hope too.  

[Kronos]

Although a Historical Arena would be nice, time and time again it has proven a no go in AH.  I site for examples the low turnout that we consistently get in Check Six events, and snapshots. Afrika Corps has worked out very well surprisingly, kudos to the planners.

I personally think we ought to get a rolling plane set going like warbirds.  Yes u would still get the Niks VS CHogs, but wouldnt be all the time.  We get that going in the main arena, and I think most of the complaints would disappear.



------------------
Kronos
CO No. 272 Squadron "Whispering Death"
http://members.home.net/wchiasson/no272/

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Look for a P47 at 15K, usually where the furball is not.

[juzz]

 

Horrible inertia modelling - the 190 for instance had an initial roll rate comparable to the spit, until you've rolled a bit. Then it sped up.

Yup, I agree there. Apparently there was a version that was even worse, dubbed "MushBirds". It supposedly reduced warp rolls to zero though.

 

Engine revving up in a dive? Weird.

AH does it too, in case you didn't notice...  

 

Ok, let's to some aerobatics. Stick full back, up into a hammerhead. Waiting for stall horn. "Beep". Uhm. Plane goes a bit more over, then locks there, and then goes nose down in an instant. Interesting.

Pick up speed, let's yanks this baby around. Full stick deflection. Ho humm. Ok speed is dropping, but apparently, this bird is equipped with a nifty anti high AoA system.

StSanta, the first thing you have to do is go to setup -> flight -> and uncheck the "easy flight" box. That disables the "ezmode" AoA limiter.  

I really can't imagine anybody would go from playing Aces High to WarBirds, unless they played it before.

I forgot the worst part. Play it in 2d mode - that's what the Mac guys have to put up with until they get WarBirds III. No wonder you end up with ppl like MG.  

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 11-21-2000).]

[Regurge]

<timidly steps up to mic>Um my name is Regurge, and uh.....I still play Warbirds.

<group>Hi Regurge!

Couple of things Santa:

1. Sounds like you had Easy Mode on. From the tower, click the Setup button, and go to the Flight menu. Make sure Easy Mode is unchecked. IMPORTANT: you must click the Close button for changes to take effect.

With easy mode off planes are much more responsive, and will definitely stall and spin. A fully developed spin in an f4u, spit14, or ki-84 is very nasty indeed.

2. Dont judge any damage or FM issues by what the offline AI planes do. Online damage is different than offline, and the AI planes are known for doing UFO type manuevers (especially at Ace difficulty level). Their favorite move is to go into a scissors and decelerate from 300mph to 100 in about 3 seconds. After you overshoot, they hit the afterburner and are back at 300 in no time. Rest assured, no plane can do that online.

As for the views system, well, i gotta agree it sucks donkeys.

On depth perception, when i first started AH i found it difficult to judge my alt by eye. I couldnt tell the difference between 10k and 20k. I think thats because in WB its hazy as you go higher. So at 30k+ you can hardly see the ground at all. Its not really any harder or easier in either sim, just different IMO.

As for your first question "What's so good about WB 2.76?", look up Stiglr. I think he has an teaches hour-long seminar on why WB is better than AH. j/k    

<edit> juzz beat me to the easy mode stuff. Dam my slow-ass typing  



[This message has been edited by Regurge (edited 11-21-2000).]

[llbm_MOL]

YADDA YADDA YADDA.................
Same ol'Chit.....diffrent smell..........\
Been to WB's  and as most of the guys that have been there also.........will never go back.....so why give us a play by play of how they are going down? Dont care..........

LLB OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kats]

There are a couple of reasons people play WB eventhough it is obviously inferior to AH.

Firstly, I'd say familiarity. The program, the people etc etc.

Secondly, inspite of it's shortcomings, it is still a very good simulator. In many instances AH's superiority is a matter of splitting hairs. Admittingly, in other areas AH clearly exceeds WB.

[bowser]

"Engine revving up in a dive? Weird."

I think he means the pitch of the engine increases as you dive and pick up speed.  I know it's not realistic but when I first came over from WBs to AH, this is the thing I missed the most.  It helps greatly in judging speed without checking the guage.  It took awhile to get used to doing without, and I found cranking up the wind in AH helps too.

bowser

[Jekyll]

 

Now, I am not sure why people bother flying it.

Because I prefer a sim which encourages outflying an opponent, rather than simply outgunning him  

P.S. Westy, our new law firm is 'Legal, Eagle, Beagle and Briefcase'.  I'll send you some of our new letterhead for referrals  

------------------
C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
Aces High Training Corps

[sky_bax]

Ok, I`ll bite    

"Took a look at the view system. Well, it is somethin akin to a view system; it allows you to, uhm, view around. Not particularly well, mind you, but I guess you could call it a view system."

Yep, it is a older view system. AH view system is much better.

"Engine revving up in a dive? Weird."

Nothing wierd about it. Your just used to your sim.

It gives a good sensation of speed, something lacking in AH IMO.

It`s also a good simulation of prop noise. That`s really the issue, not engine noise.

In RL the prop rpm doesn`t change. (very little)

But in a high speed dive the prop sound is much, much louder.

Why?

As somebody else described it to me, it is really about the TIP speed. Tip speed goes by 2 things, rotation and forward speed. Rotation speed is the tip around a circle:

tip speed = ((pi * d * rpm / 60)^2 + v^2)^0.5

When the tip speed gets closer to the speed of sound the noise levels go up in a big way. So in a high speed dive the prop is going to be MUCH louder as you approach a higher mach number for the airfoil. Basicly the volume increases.

In RL if your in a 475 mph dive do you really think it should sound like a Cessna at 85 mph?

"Ok, let's to some aerobatics. Stick full back, up into a hammerhead. Waiting for stall horn. "Beep". Uhm. Plane goes a bit more over, then locks there, and then goes nose down in an instant. Interesting."

Ok, you lost me there. I know of no beep in WB, and the rest is too general. Easy-mode maybe? Make sure it`s turned off.

"Judging the e state of enemy aircraft is odd, and overall the flight model feels like someone had taken a physicist and an aeronautical engineer, given them ether, made them construct a flight simulator, then given it to me and put me on LSD. Weirdo, man, far out dude. Not what I was expecting, but hey, tune in turn on....burn out"

Well I not sure what your exactly talking about, I`m having a hard time trying to read through the extra stuff you have in there. But if it`s Data & Specs you seek then I suggest this link:

Warbirds Flight Test Department

As you know AH is young and has changed it`s FM drasticly through version x?x, WB FM is mature, stable, and well modeled.

"Now, I am not sure why people bother flying it.

I must be missing something.

I still love AH, and after seeing the competition, gotta say that this is the best out there. Period. Even if perk project turns out to be a nightmare, it'll *still* be the best."

Well StSanta, what you just said there is a BIG matter of opinion, not fact. I feel the same way as you do, only the other way around.

I won`t get into a long list of details naming every little thing I prefer about WB and dislike about AH, but if AH offered me equally or more than what WB does I would have a AH account. But I don`t. IMO AH doesn`t even come close on the overall compairison and some serious issues that are very important to me. But that`s just my 'opinion' and my 'choice'.

I have it on my harddrive, but that`s as far as it goes.

If you and I were at a Pub having a drink, it would be fun to discuss this, but on the AH UBB it`s really hard to keep it clean.

AH is young, it will grow, and I`m keeping an eye on it. But with so much going on in RL and in WB I don`t see me getting an account any time soon.

<shrug> To each his own, it`s all good.  

<S>

PS: There`s lots of sarcasm in your explanations, if you were more serious about your findings, I would have been able to understand where you coming from better.


------------------
Skybax
328th Fighter Squadron
 www.352ndFighterGroup.com
Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney



[This message has been edited by sky_bax (edited 11-22-2000).]