Understanding BFM vs. ACM---what is your Opinion?

[TequilaChaser]

I here alot of contradiction in regards to ACM ( Air Combat Manuevering ) and get the opinion most think BFM ( Basic Flight Manuevers ) is ACM when it is not.

BFM ( Basic Flight Manuevers ) is just that, a manuever , say a split-s, a high or low Yo-yo, an Immelman........

Knowing all your BFM's is really good but to be better you must use them in coalition with each other at any given time, to even be able to take the sequence of using the BFM's and change them up at a seconds notice, if the conditions call for it.

This is called ACM ( Air Combat Manuevering ) it  is the ability to use different BFMs together in succession when needed for the given opportunity to gain angles, and the ability to switch off to a different manuever than planned for when the condition changes instantaneously with out thought or time to decide..........

Alot of other flyers here can put things into words better than I, this is the reason for this thread..to help edumucate the less knowing ( side note- to help me better say what I am thinking:D ) so please everyone give your opinion.....

[SLO]

thats pretty understandable tequila.....

[Blooz]

I like to think of it as strategy and tactics.

BFM being what you do before you get into gun range (strategy) and ACM as what you do after you get into gun range (tactics)

[fuzeman]

I agree TC. BFMs are your building blocks, or Lincoln Logs, and ACM is what you build out of them.
Guess I'm showing my age with the Lincoln Logs reference. For you young'uns think Lego's in the age of plastics.

[TweetyBird]

I never worried much about the difference, because I don't know enough to teach. I have only two categories - "worked " and "didn't work."

[Hyrax81st]

Originally posted by fuze
Guess I'm showing my age with the Lincoln Logs reference. For you young'uns think Lego's in the age of plastics.

Hey ! I had a Lincoln Log set (granted, inherited from my brother 10 years older than me). But I did have my own Erector Set and Mattel Creature Factory.

[Murdr]

I think it just a matter of evolving semantics.  For instance Basic Flight Maneuvers in a civil setting would be things like climbing banking decending.  Possiblly to distinguish from that, BFM in some references refers to Basic Fighter Maneuvers, which seems resonable since a split-s is not something that is really required for basic flying.

Also ACM has come to mean (singular) Air Combat Maneuver. For Instance   Which at face value makes sence since they are maneuvers that would only be used in 'air combat' or acrobatic flying.  Then Air Combat Maneuvering that you point out has come to be described as an ACM series.

Although I dont know for sure, as a historical technical matter the way you have laid it out TC is probably correct.  In practice though BFM and ACM seem to be interchangible depending on source and context.

[dtango]

Technically speaking I believe the USAF text defines BFM as maneuvers for individual aircraft while ACM defines maneuvering between aircraft working in concert.   My understanding though is that not everyone uses these strict definitions.  I can't speak to Naval Aviation definitions.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

[TequilaChaser]

Ok did a google search and came up with the following,

BFM ( as in Basic Fighter Manuevers ) is dealing with a 1 vs 1 only engagement,BFM is 1v1 set piece maneuvering to a desired end result.

ACM ( as in  Air Combat Manuevers ) is dealing with a 2 vs 1 engagement. ACM is 2v1 and involves the practice of initial defensive or offensive moves. As in BFM, the maneuvers are set piece, are begun from a visual set up, and are flown to a pre-briefed conclusion. ACM is not free play...the fighters follow a script to a desired learning objective using BFM maneuvers to defeat the single opponent.

ACT ( as in Air Combat Tactics ) iincludes any engagement 1 on 1 to 1 vs unlimited number of opponents. There is no script in that no specific objective is mandated. ACT involves the blending of BFM and ACM techniques into free play.


here is a link to the page I found that describes it in full.

Introduction to Simulation BFM

and thank you all for your opinions,

( added: thanks Murdr for pointing out my typo on flight verses fighter in the BFM instance, without you saying anything I would have never seen it staring me in the face LOL  )

[Drano]

I'd say that BFMs are maneuvers designed to change the direction or attitude of your plane. For example a simple turn, roll or loop. "Building blocks".

ACMs are similar or advanced BFMs designed to change the direction or attitude of your plane RELATIVE another plane or planes with the aim of gaining a position to employ weapons or deny the other plane or planes the same.

An immelman is a BFM if you're doing it by yourself. Its an ACM if you're engaged with another plane. So  they're the same--only they're not. All depends on the situation.


        Drano

[Max]

Upon jumping into the world of simulated air to air combat, back about 8 years ago when Air Warrior for Macintosh went live on AOL, I downloaded the 100+ page AWTA manual penned by Brooke, Twist and others. How many remember that one? LOL

The manual described the planes with their' strenghts & weaknesses...situational awareness...went on to describe various BFM's...and then the various styles of air combat. It was my impression that everything boiled down to angles ...gaining an effective firing solution on your opponant in the least amount of time.

DmdMax

[Morpheus]

Guess I'm showing my age with the Lincoln Logs reference.

LOL I loved those things as a kid!


And im not even that old

Good stuff TC.

If you wouldnt mind I need a dueling partner. I am getting burnt out from MA rinse and repeat activities. So if you would be interested in doing some practicing let me know and we can get in there again. Plus I need the practice

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DMax
It was my impression that everything boiled down to angles ...gaining an effective firing solution on your opponant in the least amount of time.

DmdMax

That's exactly what it boils down to.  It's amazing how simple it really is.

I still keep Brooke's manual on my desk and consider it one of the 'bibles' for online air combat sims.



ack-ack

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by MoRphEuS

Good stuff TC.

If you wouldnt mind I need a dueling partner. I am getting burnt out from MA rinse and repeat activities. So if you would be interested in doing some practicing let me know and we can get in there again. Plus I need the practice

Thank you Morpheus, and sure, fire me an email or catch me up in the arenas, I need the practice of having my 6 handed to me over and over again

Originally posted by DMax It was my impression that everything boiled down to angles ...gaining an effective firing solution on your opponant in the least amount of time.

Yes Max, it does to a degree, in a 1 vs 1 duel this would be the absolute point to be had. In  the MA environment it is much more, E management , SA, and manuevering for a guns solution, in my thinking if one went for the quickest way to gain angles for obtaining a guns solution, one would be expending all of his E with none to counter react to any other situation that might arise,. Same can be said for the 1 vs 1, you want to gain angles first, quickly but you do not want to exert all of your E doing so, with nothing left in the bag if you overshoot, or miss the opportunity or need to counter the opponents counter move.

Originally posted by ack-ackI still keep Brooke's manual on my desk and consider it one of the 'bibles' for online air combat sims.

I agree AckAck, I  still keep it loaded on my HD,  btw noticed Brooke on the BBS here recently, think he posted in the announcements section......says he getting back into it.