ONCE AGAIN I CANT PLAY its getting OLD

[Lephturn]

Hbliar,

I was just pointing out that if you don't like the challenge of being out-numbered or it's too much, switch sides.  Simple.  Logging in every week at the same time and cursing until you quit isn't useful.  Play however you have to, just have fun.

I also didn't talk about switching sides with a squadron.  If you have a squadron of folks on at the same time every week, you should be able to organize and have some fun regardless.  Still, the same rule applies.  I fly to have fun, and so should we all.  Do whatever you need to so it's fun.  If it means switching with 5 guys like you illustrated, then fine.  Just be sports about it at least and after you switch, go beat on the other fellows and give the under-populated bunch a chance to recover.  

CavemanJ,

I understand that sometimes you can get beat down to 2 fields and have a huge orbit of enemy folks orbiting overhead.  Yes, it can be hard to get organized in that extreme circumstance, and hard to break out of even if you can.  Personally, I would like to see something like the middle island with 1 large field for each side that is indestructible, including the acks and such.  In this way there would always be a place in the center of the map where those who just want to furball can go and fly their plane of choice.  Make the rest of the map as normal with all the strat and that stuff.  This would give each side one large base that would always have ack and flack protection, ordinance, and the like with which to launch an attack.  Make 'em 5k alt. fields too so you get a nice little alt start.  This way your never beat down so bad that you can't launch a retalliation strike.

Call it Furball Island.  Whatever.  Just as long as there is always one place you can fly every plane from with ord and gas with at least AA protection in the area.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[SKurj]

 

Originally posted by CavemanJ:
Skurj, if a guy has decided he's going to be loyal to one country for all eternity who are you to tell him to change countries to enjoy his flight time?  BTW, thanks for finally admitting the knights no longer have the testicular fortitude to push a reset.

Heh CJ i'd like to see you show me exactly what I said   I know for a fact I did not admit to the knights no longer having the whatever. I did admit to last night they no longer desired to.  I pushed and pushed for the reset, I've mentioned in other threads that once a certain point is passed that the reset is the only humane thing to do.  The gangbang hurts the sim.  Players logout, players change teams, whines get loud, though last night was relatively quiet WTG!  When goons tried to roll to finally acquire the reset, one of the more vocal rook whiners shottem down with glee.  

I'd rather see a coupla bases indestructible, initially as the horde closes on those last coupla bases the defenders will get hit hard, but as the attackers realize they aren't accomplishing anything, they trickle back to fight on the other front (seen it, done it)

I don't take any enjoyment from bein a gangbanger, until recently I wouldn't fight on that front, i'd rather see all of us havin a good time stead of whinin. (whats happened to u anyways?)  I would fight on the other front, sometimes it would help, and the suppressed would climb back, but as we've all seen the mob feeds itself as players are drawn to it.  It doesn't work too often.  The solution.. see a gangbang forming, 1 team down to 3 or 4 bases.. squish em lettem have reset and get on with it.

If you choose to stay with the team til eternity (even tho i've seen WC change teams lately) then do like Westy said.

AKskurj

[AKSeaWulfe]

Removed

[This message has been edited by AKSeaWulfe (edited 01-07-2001).]

[wolf37]

hello all:

well I dont know what has happened to the Rooks numbers, yes they are down in the past couple of weeks, why I dont know. But I will say this, I have been a knight since beta 1, back when 5 pilots online for the knights was a lot. Back in beta 1 and 2 and 3, the knights where always out numbered but we fought always. but now the the numbers are way up for all threee teams combined, it is hard for the Rooks to fight yes. But what would the Rooks like the rest of us to do, should we all join the Rooks team, I know I wont, and my squad will remain with the Knights. would the Rooks like us all to forget they are even there. how much fun will the Rooks have if the Knights and Bishops did not bother with them at all. so please tell us what the Rooks would like the rest of us to do.

Now CavemanJ, you flew for the Knights for a long time, you where with the Knights when are numbers where down and we would fight for our few remaining fields and some times push back, some times loose to the reset.

You have two fields and your whole team is upping at those two fields, makes it hard to get the reset. Not all the Knights fly against the Rooks all the time. My squad flies against the Bishops most of the time.

Yes it is to bad that when the Rooks are getting slamed very bad, a lot of there pilots jump ship, ( swamprat comes to mind)
but that is not the fault of the Knights or the Bishops.

Next, it is funny how the Rooks only mention the Knights as not going for the reset, as if it is only the Knights that are causing the trouble the Rooks are having right now. It almost sounds like the Bishops are not attacking the Rooks at all. that would mean the Rooks and the Bishops are double teaming the Knights and not doing a very good job of it at that. But as I have been on line, I know that is not true, as I have looked at the map and seen Rook fields in the hands of the Bishops as well as in the hands of the Knights. But seeing as my squad and a lot of other Knights are fighting the Bishops and a lot of Bishops are fighting the Knights, there is no gangbanging going on here. The Rooks just have fewer numbers and it only looks like your getting gangbanged.
When I came on last night (Jan, 5, 2001, 9:00 pm MST) there where about 80 Knights online, 80 Bishops online, and 35 Rooks online. yes, very bad for the Rooks, but if the Rooks where getting gangbanged, well 160 attacking 35, you would not have held your two fields for two mins. and when I came online the Rooks had four or five fields. so you would have lost them in about 10 mins.

Now no matter how you take this thread, or what you think of me, it all comes down to numbers. I dont know why the Rooks suddenlly have so few numbers. back in tour 11 on the beta map, the Rooks had an average of 40 to 50 pilots online when ever I came on line and the Bishops had 50 to 60 well the Knights had 40 to 50 pilots. and I would like to point out that two Knight squads had left to fly for other teams, doing to rotation thing.
the Wrecking Crew left to fly Rook in the start of tour 10. the Buccaneers left to fly Bishop in the start of tour 11. Now the Arbain Knights left the Bishops to fly for the Knights as of Jan 1st. They rotate on the first of every month. Next month, they will be with the Rooks. Well I know it is hard to fly for the Rooks right now, but untill the Rooks numbers come up, it will be that way.
But untill then the Rooks will just have to try and fight it out the best they can. Try paying the FDB's what they want to come fly for you, they can help the Rooks out a lot. They will make danm sure you have no beer or pizza left over to make things look messy.

Well Rooks, good luck in the coming days, weeks, months, as soon as your numbers are up, then it will be either the Knights or the Bishops getting pounded on, probably the Knights as you seem to blame all your problems on the Knights only. and I am sure you will want revenge against us Knights for been the onlt team that has attacked and left you with only two fields then vulched the hell out of you. We all know the Bishops would never do something like that.

Well best of luck to you Rooks, you will need it for the time been.


 

------------------
wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[Glasses]

 

Originally posted by hblair:
That last post sounded kinda negative. Just to clarify, I'm looking forward to logging on tonight and trying to turn this thing around again.   Just wish somebody would muzzle glasses.  

WHUT!!!!

------------------
Glasses---I may have 4 eyes ,but you only have one wing.

[hazed-]

bah we all get gangbanged at one time or another!!
Ive been a knit for all but 1 or 2 tours,was rook for last transfer and noticed a lot less cooperation..thats not to say it doesnt happen ,just that i didnt seem to know most and it was hard to organise people i didnt know or havent flown with.
I think the problem is all this changing about lately   . Squads moving is like 20 or so ,so it makes big impact,but its good fun changing for a while.You need a mission planner like ripsnort or zigrat to keep trying over and over like they do..takes time to get a trusted name but great fun when people see your name and join.
Ive had real bad nights on AH as a knit but i just got even later   your particular description does sound bad but if you're really pissed off change country for a tour

people will always game the game what can we do?

hazed


[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 01-06-2001).]

[javelin]

Just a thought, Since everyone is talking about ways to stop the slaughter,if your down to 1 or 2 fields how about optional air starts for that country, that might stop the vulching

[javelin]

I know, I know,  more game than sim  

[Lephturn]

AKSeawolf,

Some folks want to play that base-taking game, and some don't.  The point here is to figure out a way that all different types of players can have fun in the SAME arena.  We don't have the numbers to split the community yet, so we have to think of ways to keep it fun for as many people as possible.  Why not come up with a concession like "furball island" (see my post above) so those that want to furball can always do so, and those that want to play the strat game have the rest of the map to play with.  Please tell me the problem with that type of setup.

Strat-shmat, I log into the arena to shoot down airplanes, and the rest is merely a diversion for me.  Not everybody plays the game the way I do, and that's fine.  Lets just think about ways to make the main arena as inclusive to all playing styles as possible.  The more inclusive we are, the more folks we will get in AH, and the closer we get to enough folks for Pyro to start splitting into multiple arenas like a HA and such.  I think the solution I put forth above is a reasonable one.  Please feel free to come up with a better constructive idea, or at least discuss what I wrote on merits.

The, as you said, "entire point of the game" is not the same for you as it is for me.  It's different for a lot of folks.  Please try to remember that.

And as for the "buy yourself a clue" comment, you can bite me.  Try writing an intelligent post with some content and maybe you can demonstrate that it's not you that needs to buy a clue.

------------------
Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs  http://www.flyingpigs.com
 
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"

[anRky]

It was said:
------------------------------------------
Some folks want to play that base-taking game, and some don't. The point here is to figure out a way that all different types of players can have fun in the SAME arena. We don't have the numbers to split the community yet, so we have to think of ways to keep it fun for as many people as possible. Why not come up with a concession like "furball island" (see my post above) so those that want to furball can always do so, and those that want to play the strat game have the rest of the map to play with. Please tell me the problem with that type of setup.
-------------------------------------

I'm new here, been playing AW for awhile, and
I really dislike the AW/AH-type arena play.  

My big thing is scenario play, and I'm
looking forward to the next one to come
along here.  

When I play in the arena, I'm looking for a
few good fights.  Although I don't engage
much in the base capture game going on around
me, I have to pay attention to it more than
I'd like.  I think a 'furball island' area
is a great idea!  

Of course, if we get one, I predict the
whining level to rise dramatically in the
arena.  In AW, we had an area in the middle
of the map, much like you're suggesting,
called 'fighter town' for awhile.  People
were constantly squeaking about it.  The ones
who played there were squeaking at the others
who were constantly 'porking' it, or those
hovering above it, picking off anyone who
was engaged. The people who didn't play
there were always whining that the FT people
weren't playing their base capture game.

Of course, if there's one thing that's common
to all online gaming, it's whining.  My
advice is to ignore the whiners, not whine
at them.  To me, it looks like there's more
whining about whiners here, than anything
else.

anRky
-Ih8ubb

[Mayhem]

Actually that was a AW3 problem in AW4W you had the basic pacific map with an ATOL in the middle each country got 3 bases 2 carriers all uncapturable 1 was even unporkable till just about the end of aw classic. there was 1 base between each country and 3 at the atol in the middle leaving six nutral bases (acks would shoot at any one) for capture. We used it for Full real and relaxed and i have to admit I have never had as much fun since then on any game. God I miss that!

------------------
Mayhem 33rd S.G.
"Destination anywhere, so far gone, I'm already there!"

[This message has been edited by Mayhem (edited 01-07-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by Lephturn:
Some folks want to play that base-taking game, and some don't.  The point here is to figure out a way that all different types of players can have fun in the SAME arena.  We don't have the numbers to split the community yet, so we have to think of ways to keep it fun for as many people as possible.  Why not come up with a concession like "furball island" (see my post above) so those that want to furball can always do so, and those that want to play the strat game have the rest of the map to play with.  Please tell me the problem with that type of setup.

You don't want to split the arenas, but you want a seperated island with 2 or 4 fields for everyone that wants to furball on to furball on...? The problem is that the whole point for a map wide war is so that everyone can get involved doing their own thing, which unfortunately sucks because you can have 50 guys on your side but everyone of them except 2 or 3 guys just wants to furball. That's how you end up in the corner of a map with 2 fields. The fact is, in the end you divide the arena whether it be in the same arena or not it has the same effect. So lets say around the time you want to fly, you log in and find 80% of the arena on the furballing fields and the other 20% stealing land to force a reset. For those other 20% it's gonna be a boring time, and that's why we don't divide the arenas for the sake of being able to find a fight if you want to. Me? Well I don't like to capture fields unless I participate in one of those missions Ripsnort or someone else organizes. Somehow, no matter how few fields we have, I manage to take off and get a few kills before myself dying. I think the simple fact of the matter is the guy doesn't like losing and he's getting pissed off that he's getting vulched. I'm sorry, but it happens to everyone. I've gone for 3 hours straight without being able to take off but I didn't come here with my panties in a bunch about it.

 

Strat-shmat, I log into the arena to shoot down airplanes, and the rest is merely a diversion for me.  Not everybody plays the game the way I do, and that's fine.

Ouch we agree on what we like to do in the MA..  

 

The, as you said, "entire point of the game" is not the same for you as it is for me.  It's different for a lot of folks.  Please try to remember that.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/map.html

Oh So HTC created all this because they didn't have a point to their game other than aimlessly flying around? The game to me is aircombat and that's it. The game to HTC appears to be based on winning a war, unless I am so ignorant that the above URL does not detail it.

 

And as for the "buy yourself a clue" comment, you can bite me.  Try writing an intelligent post with some content and maybe you can demonstrate that it's not you that needs to buy a clue.

Intelligence can't be percieved in anyway through a few text sentences. My post was grammatically correct and contained proper spelling. If you want to insult me based on a remark I made that was not directed at you, then by all means do so but do not forget what you previously said in the quote above. Intelligence does not usually involve slamming another person, so I guess we are both two unintelligent people making unintelligent remarks on a game that everyone percieves in different light. Of course I always figgered you played the game based on what the game offered you not based on what you thought the game should be. Otherwise why bother playing it? Just for the dogfighting? H2H is a great place for a dogfighting fix and it's free, when I want to just dogfight I hop over there. 8 players all taking off from one field, guns cold until you have enough altitude to put up a fight, and then fight at will. Why bother with an island where people can go furball when you can just jump into H2H for free if that's all you want to do? HTC does indeed have a point to their game, which I pointed out before but you insist I must be wrong because I'm unintelligent in your eyes.

Your turn to slam me again.
-SW

[loser111]

 

Originally posted by 1776:
Could just change countries!!!  

thats right, stack the side that is winning you retard..... themost fun i have ever had is limpimg back from defeat to a position of power,, keep  your dweeb coments to yourself

[Lephturn]

SW,

I never said I didn't want to split up the arenas.  In fact splitting up into multiple arenas is the goal IMHO. It's just clear that won't happen until we have enough folks online all the time to make it viable.  Until then I agree, the arena will split up itself to a certain degree.  All I'm saying is that maybe we should look at ways to do this a little better than just say "sorry but it's your turn" to the folks that have no interest in taking part in that part of the game but from time to time are forced to.  Maybe something like that could help get enough folks onboard to get enough folks to split into more specialized arenas sooner.

And BTW, I didn't come here with my panties in a bunch either.  I entered this discussion to point out some other options to the folks who were upset at the arena conditions.  I think it's useful to discuss what could possibly be done to avoid alienating some part of the player base at times, and that is what I'm doing.

Regardless of what HTC says the "point" of the game is, each person plays it with their own goals in mind, as you alude to in your post.  If the way they do that now needs to change to keep more folks having fun in the game, then so be it.  I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing different ways the arena could be set up to accomodate different players.  Just saying "HTC says the point is X" doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss other options.

As for "slamming" you, I was reacting to your comment to everyone in this thread that implied we were stupid because we were discussing it.  I did not say you were not intelligent, I said you did not write an intelligent post.  While "intelligent" may have been the wrong word, I still think a post more like the last one you wrote actually discussing the issues would have been much more productive than the three line one followed by what I percieved as an insult to those discussing the issues.

[AKSeaWulfe]

My mistake, truce Lephturn? I will delete my original post but leave my second one standing just because I feel the first paragraph is a valid argument as to dividing up the arena into a strat war and a furball island if you don't mind?

There's always options open, but I'm not sure what we could do about creating a place just for furballing. Did you play on the arena that was made by ICI/iMOL for that free weekend event several years ago? I believe it predated the 3D graphics engine. Well what it was is the precursor to the ACA that was put up for those looking for a quick combat fix without much flying involved and no strat. Fields weren't capturable at the time, it was a single small map with I believe 3 or 4 airfields very very close together. Well we had about 40 ppl I believe testing it out, and boy was it a mess. When you confine several planes to a small square grid area that are all shooting their guns, dropping flaps, bringing up the gear, taking damage and all the while maneuvering about the skies then the warps will be absolutely abismal in that area.

So, even though I LOVE to furball and all that good stuff but I don't like doing the jabo or strat thing, I would never fly on one of those furball only islands. Not to say other people don't want to if it's their thing, but I believe that it would become very stale very quickly. That and when I want my furball fix I take off from a nearby airfield where there's a good battle going on and I fly to that area and make my attack. Usually escape with 3 or 4 kills and half a dozen vital airplane components missing. <G>

Or we could experiment with this:
On the weekends only setup the SEA(when it's not being used for scenarios/events) with a small map built for furballing only. Leave it up for several hours and let people come and go as they wish but leave the few fields that are there uncapturable and the acks/hangars undestructable.
Maybe this would fulfill the furballing urge in people but while during the weekday leaving the MA the same way as it is now. Maybe people would enjoy it more, or they would want the furball arena up all the time or people would feel it's just a waste of resources. I dunno, what do you think?
-SW