Author Topic: Very interesting story...  (Read 1305 times)

Offline Bodhi

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Offline Nash

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2004, 01:45:58 AM »
indeed....

Offline Gunslinger

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2004, 01:46:17 AM »
WOW....good read.

I myself think America should brace itself for suicide bombing such as seen in Israel.  Its just a matter of time.  How hard is it to get 10 gallons of diesle fuel 5lbs of fertilizer and a rental car?  

The real question this article brings is this:  should we be afraid of arabs?

To me that's a good question because my opinion is that most terrorists are in fact arabs.  So....should we be afraid of them?  Me I dont know.  Hmmm who knows if i'm actually making sense here but oh well...... I just seem to thing we should brace our selves for the worse and hope for the best.

Offline GtoRA2

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« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2004, 02:36:02 AM »
Scarry.

I think the rule of being able to search only two middle easterners is just stupid.

Yes I know a terrorist may not be from their, but it is more likely they will be.



Still we will pay for stupidity like this in the future.


Maybe the airlines should just ban all carrie on items.

Offline demaw1

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2004, 04:03:03 AM »
bodhi .....ya beat me to it ,lol. I hear monday night [i think but dont hold me to it ] nbc is showing an investagation on this story.I heard the lady on radio last night,she said a number of people have told her it was happenstance.She said she knew better,Why does our goverment fell they have to cover up everything.She said when she found out our own goverment would fine the airlines if they searched more then 2 arabs per plane it made her sick.Her goal is to make sure americans know this, hopefully to change the policy.  She said her family and her have been threaten by certain people in the gov.She thinks she is going to keep trying to get it out.

Offline Gunslinger

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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2004, 04:13:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by demaw1
bodhi .....ya beat me to it ,lol. I hear monday night [i think but dont hold me to it ] nbc is showing an investagation on this story.I heard the lady on radio last night,she said a number of people have told her it was happenstance.She said she knew better,Why does our goverment fell they have to cover up everything.She said when she found out our own goverment would fine the airlines if they searched more then 2 arabs per plane it made her sick.Her goal is to make sure americans know this, hopefully to change the policy.  She said her family and her have been threaten by certain people in the gov.She thinks she is going to keep trying to get it out.


Just playing devils advocate here:

What if the govt allready knows about this....long befor this lady ever made her flight.  What if they've known about it for a while and have been flying along side these terrorists every flight.

Here's were the problem lays.  If the govt knows about this they have to have a case against these guys if they want to arrest them and detain them for any lenght of time.....not to mention try them in court.  What if right now they are just gathering evidence against them....enought to put them away.

Look even an AMericn lawyer is willing to defend Sadam....whats to say the govt arrests these guys based on suspicion and "national security" and some ACLU d---head decides that that these fine gentlemen need to be free and petitions the supreme court.  

Now this is no longer a matter of "national security" but of "arib rights"  well its descrimination and it will not be tolerated by the librals even if they were trying to blow up a plane and we cant prove it.  


Like I said....brace yourselfs.  This will undo itself.

Offline demaw1

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2004, 04:46:01 AM »
response to gov knowing.

  Some good points made,let me try here. I didnt read the story posted cause I heard her last night.The gov might have known,real hard to believe only 2 air marshalls and 8 of them on plane.Puts lots of people in danger.The marshalls sent a electronic message from plane,that is how f b i and police knew to be there.They did arrest them,to question them so i dont think they were waiting for evidence.Why is the gov threating her and her family?, I believe but not sure the gov has put a gag order on pilots.I cant believe they didnt tell the pilots as they are the most important people on the plane.See how conditioned we are to the political correct response.She thought most people on plane didnt have a clue.How do ya all feel about our gov.putting restrictions like that on our airlines,not closing our borders,after convencing us what the arabs want to do?

Offline Jayclark

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2004, 05:11:46 AM »
Quote
I myself think America should brace itself for suicide bombing such as seen in Israel.


I agree. I don't care what the president says or any other government offical. The United States will have another terroist act. I don't know when or how but its going to happen. And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will. I hope I'm wrong though.:(

Offline demaw1

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« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2004, 05:32:14 AM »
pissed off terriost...
 Jayclark...

  This goverment did nothing and I repeat nothing to piss off  the terrorist.We had all better get it through our heads that these people hate us because of there religion and beliefs.It is the murderers fault he/she kills not the victims.They are taught from babies to hate and kill ,they are taught that here much less over there.I wish the left would wake up but I do believe it is to late.Who played spidermans girl,kirstan duncan I think.She was on a talk show few days ago and was asked what she would do if she could be spiderman for a day.Her replay?If I could have the powers of spiderman for a day I would kill bush....

 o. c. register go find it yourself if u want to read it it aint hard.

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2004, 10:17:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jayclark
And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will.


If you are saying this current government is the only one to have "pissed pff" the terrorists, you are wrong, so very wrong.

The Arab world has been "pissed" at us since our support of the 1947 resolution that took land from them to form the state of Israel.  That is the number one reason why we have the level of terrorism we are facing today.  We, and the rest of the world ignored the Arabs, who came forth, with legitamate titles, legitamate deebs, and other paperwork thye have / had saying that the land that became Israel was already theirs...  We did nothing, we did not even listen.  We ignored these people and started a level of frustration that goes beyond anything we understand.  We by our own laws, do not allow a land claim after 20 years, so if you get a deed on a piece of property submitted and it is not fought beyore 20 years, regardless if the previous owner is right, the land is yours.  End of the road their.  Well guess what, we ignored our own laws to honor a 2000 year old claim on land, without compensation to the people who lived there.  THere was also a contingent to that whole theft of land, that their be a creation of a "seperate and independent Palestinian State" in the area of the West Bank.  We all know that has not happened, and the frustration level grows.  

How do we address this now?  Do we pressure the Israelis to return the west bank?  That is a start.  But, a big step forward in this would be for the U.S. to step up and say, "We the United States acknowledge that the Palestinians were wronged.  That the land taken to form Israel was not a legitimate act.  Unfortunately, we can not undo it, but the Palestinians are right in their claim.  The US will now do all in it's power to help ensure the creation of a seperate autonomous Palestinian State."  THat statement alone, made by our government would do immeasureable amounts of good in the eyes of the Arabs.  It would give them a shred of dignity that they have been missing for nearly 60 years.  From Dubai to Morrocco, we would for once be seen as fair, and caring about their plight.  Will it end terrorism, no, it will not, but it will cut the amount of terrorists funneling to the radical fundamentalists.  The end of these radicals will only come by the removal of their main weapon against the west, the Israeli issue, which will show the Arab world that we do indeed listen.

The Arabs are also "pissed" with us over the fact that the United States represents technology, and modernisation.  Something most of them are resisting, especially the fundamentalists, as it is happening too fast.  They have, in the past 60 years gone from being an ignored people, a different people who the west did not associate with until we found they had something we wanted... oil.  In the last 60 years, they have gone from being a group of tribes under a common banner to being full fledged nations participating in modern world affairs.  In 60 years... they went from were we were in the 1400's to where we are today... imagine the turmoil and you can imagine the further problems.

Simply put, I do not support the terrorists, but I do understand where they are coming from.  I also understand that no matter how much we throw at this militarily, we will not defeat it that way.  So, that leads us to one road, understanding which will bring about the cooperation to end terrorism.
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Offline Capt. Pork

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2004, 10:58:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Jayclark
I agree. I don't care what the president says or any other government offical. The United States will have another terroist act. I don't know when or how but its going to happen. And I fear it will be much worse then 9/11. The Government has pissed off terroist all around the world. They want to hit us again and they will. I hope I'm wrong though.:(



They don't need to. With half the country thinking the way you do, expecting the 'big' attack after the biggest attack of all times has already been carried out, the job of the terrorist is largely done in this country. We, as a people, are terrified.

No terrorist can destroy a nation. Terrorists, by definition, create much more fear than destruction. What destroys the fabric of their enemies is the public response to their actions. Osama Bin Laden in reality doesn't need to organize another act in his life to remain on the forefront of our thinking. All he needs to do is put out some crappily-produced videos of him shooting his AK, give some more interviews to secretly sympathetic Islamic reporters and the results will be the same.  The nation will go through its orange and red alerts. We'll be scared. We'll blame the government for failing, first in catching him and then in appeasing him. Bin Laden, as sick as it sounds, is starting to behave like a figment of pop culture. The evil Britney Spears with a beard. Everything he says or does, no matter how inane or vacuous, still registers hits on the psyche of a population. Unlike Britney, though, hsi influence crosses all demographic barriers of Western Society.

But, just to play devil's advocate, here's a scenario to prove that nuclear weapons or even extensive planning are not necessary to bring a devastating attack to our shores.

Take about fifty mindless extremists, er, I mean freedom-fighters, all connected by cell phone. Dispurse them within five or six major cities in the nation. Equip them with cars, guns and the most basic homemade explosives, and wait for rushhour to hit. In small teams, these guys locate fuel tanker trucks and systematically take them over and explode them. Blow up two tankers on the same stretch of crowded highway during bumper-to-bumper traffic and not only will you get mass casualties, but you'll throw each respective city into wide-spread, paralysing panic. You'll also disrupt commerce. Worst of all, you'll show us that we're no longer even safe on the ground.

But why bother? We're already terrified.

Should we be complacent? Hell no. We should seek them out and exterminate them everywhere we find them, like the roaches they are, but we need to get on with our lives at the same time.

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2004, 11:44:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Capt. Pork
They don't need to. With half the country thinking the way you do, expecting the 'big' attack after the biggest attack of all times has already been carried out, the job of the terrorist is largely done in this country. We, as a people, are terrified.

No terrorist can destroy a nation. Terrorists, by definition, create much more fear than destruction. What destroys the fabric of their enemies is the public response to their actions. Osama Bin Laden in reality doesn't need to organize another act in his life to remain on the forefront of our thinking. All he needs to do is put out some crappily-produced videos of him shooting his AK, give some more interviews to secretly sympathetic Islamic reporters and the results will be the same.  The nation will go through its orange and red alerts. We'll be scared. We'll blame the government for failing, first in catching him and then in appeasing him. Bin Laden, as sick as it sounds, is starting to behave like a figment of pop culture. The evil Britney Spears with a beard. Everything he says or does, no matter how inane or vacuous, still registers hits on the psyche of a population. Unlike Britney, though, hsi influence crosses all demographic barriers of Western Society.

But, just to play devil's advocate, here's a scenario to prove that nuclear weapons or even extensive planning are not necessary to bring a devastating attack to our shores.

Take about fifty mindless extremists, er, I mean freedom-fighters, all connected by cell phone. Dispurse them within five or six major cities in the nation. Equip them with cars, guns and the most basic homemade explosives, and wait for rushhour to hit. In small teams, these guys locate fuel tanker trucks and systematically take them over and explode them. Blow up two tankers on the same stretch of crowded highway during bumper-to-bumper traffic and not only will you get mass casualties, but you'll throw each respective city into wide-spread, paralysing panic. You'll also disrupt commerce. Worst of all, you'll show us that we're no longer even safe on the ground.

But why bother? We're already terrified.

Should we be complacent? Hell no. We should seek them out and exterminate them everywhere we find them, like the roaches they are, but we need to get on with our lives at the same time.


Beat me to it Capt. Pork, they have indeed already won.  

The premise of the article is how can we remain a free and open society and yet not live in fear of terrorism.  

The answer to that is we can't.  

We will suffer further casualties.

 We are each responsible for our own well being.  

The police, national guard or the whole military cannot insure my safety.  

The best person to make sure you are safe is you.  Accept the responsibility or die.  

I would direct you to the sage wisdom of our founding fathers.
What would they have done?  By their writings it is evident to me.

Offline demaw1

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Very interesting story...
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2004, 12:25:22 PM »
response to Bodhi.
 I look forward to your post and will continue to ,but we part company so fast this time my head is spinning lol.The british defeated terrorism in the late 1800s in the same area,yes terrorist can be defeated,I am sad to say not the way we are fighting it now,now just slows it down.Although I understand the frustration some of you feel we have not lost yet.We will be hit harder again mostly because of our stupid polices yes from this administration[ not a put down just fact,cant win this war and be polictically correct.] Capt p we as a nation are not terrorfied,I have to think we can at least do as well as Israel.Have you read about g,washington,if not for his faith in God he would have given up with in a year.Remember our safety has never been insured ever.The only difference between now and before is for the first time we have a very large left at our back that has lost their moral compass,compared to a much smaller anti America movement before.I submit to you we are not terrorfied as a whole.Americans have always been responseable for there own safety,we need to take the ability to be responsable back.They will only win if we give up ,remember,the few has always fought for the many.

Offline Bodhi

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« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2004, 12:59:22 PM »
demaw1

Sadly, this war on terrorism will never be won by military action alone.  We are creating more martyrs daily, with 10's of thousands waiting to join the ranks.  Most of what I said is garnered from reading various different books to help understand the Islamic viewpoint.  The people from the middle east need to have a voice, and in the abscence of help and listening from us, the only voice they have left is the terrorist.  

Try as we might, we will never end it, not now.  The 1800's are a far cry different from now... containment then was a real possibility, today, the information age alone allows the vast dissemination of any and all of their ideals so that containment is no longer an issue.  

Realistically, we need to be aware that the population growth of the mid east, the decline in Europe all point to one thing.  The rise of the middle east as a power.  It is in our best interests to own up to the mistakes of the past, and realise that the alternative is terrorism, and more likely all out war for the future.
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Offline Capt. Pork

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« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2004, 01:04:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by demaw1
Capt p we as a nation are not terrorfied,I have to think we can at least do as well as Israel.


I sure hope so. Regarding the Left that has lost their moral compass, I couldn't agree more.