Flaps ...

[GScholz]

Ok, then is it the switch labeled "B5" in this photo?

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by GScholz
The modelling of flaps in AH seems very "generic", and I see no reason why HTC cannot model flaps more accurately since pilot's manual reprints of most if not all aircraft are available for purchase.

While some planes like the Spit has two-stage flaps modelled the F6F does not. The F6F-3 had two-stage flaps electrically operated by an on-off switch located near the throttle. I cannot find any information on the F6F-5 having a different flaps setup. The Nikki should have automatically operated combat flaps (auto extend/retract by G-loading). The Mosquito should be able to use its landing gear as an air brake.

The number of stages and the degrees of each stage also seems generic on most planes, and there is that big debate about flap extend/retract speeds. Some planes didn't even have staged flaps, but hand cranked.

I'm no expert, and I may be wrong in everything I've said here, but to me it seems that the flaps in AH has received less attention than the rest of the modelling when accuracy is concerned. This would be understandable for a new game, but given AH's age and its designers "heritage" from earlier games I find this rather disappointing. Especially if it gives some planes unhistorical advantages, and robs other planes of their historical advantages.

Just my $.2

If HiTech won't dump the coddling auto-retracting flaps, I don't think they'll model flaps for each individual plane.  I do hope he does see the light one day and gets rid of the auto-flaps and model the flaps accurately for each plane.


ack-ack

[Krusty]

GScholtz, yes that is the one I am refering to.

I have been doing some research. Not long ago I detailed an Airfix 1/24th 109E cockpit, and needed some references. I believe this is the flaps switch, but am not certain.

[GScholz]

Thanks, I learn something new every day.

[Krusty]

While that is what I believe is the flaps control, there is also another switch down and to the right a bit. There are other switches that could be used for flaps. However that one has lines marked on it with some writing I've never had a clear picture of on it. I think it's a flaps level indicator.

[Crumpp]

Gscholtz is correct.  One wheel IS the trim for the elevator trim.  The other is for the flaps.  There is a chain connecting the flap wheel to a mechanical postion indicator  which was simply a counter affixed to the side of the cockpit.

The B5 switch is the Magneto selector switch.  Magneto positions would be M1+2 for both, M1 and M2 for the individual magnetos and 0 for none or off.

I downloaded Warbirds III and flew it for about a day.  Waste of time.  They had the magneto switch tied to the flaps! Kinda bugged me to watch the magetos moving when I dropped flaps.

Crumpp

[Crumpp]

If HiTech won't dump the coddling auto-retracting flaps,

I agree that flaps should be modeled IAW their individual A/C settings and deployment speeds.  However I don't want to see AH turn into an artificial flap fest like IL2.

The autoretract is a geat way to keep players "honest" about certain settings.  The flaps should either retract or break if the deployment speeds are exceeded.  

No percentage crap, no fudging, and no "pushing the limits" on flaps.  

Crumpp

[Wotan]

Originally posted by GScholz
Ok, then is it the switch labeled "B5" in this photo?

Crump is right

B5 is the magneto switch.

Normal operation is M1 + M2

M1 is one set
M2 is the other
0 will shut down the engine.

In FB you can see how it works.

The Spits flap switch is in a similiar position on the Spit cockpit. This maybe what you are thinking. Spit flaps had just 2 position flaps up or down.

In FB you can put flaps on an axis and dial in degrees just like you can with trim in AH.

[GScholz]

So I was right? The 109's flaps are operated manually by one of the wheels?

[Wotan]

yes, I didnt realize that was in question...

[GScholz]

Ok, thanks. Back and forth is twice as far. I relearn something old every day.

[Krusty]

May I ask 2 questions then...

1) What is your source stating the wheel moves the flaps?
2) What trims the ailerons?

[Wotan]

Heres a short snip about flying the 109 E

Stalling speeds on the glide are 75 mph flaps up, and 61 mph flaps down. Lowering the flaps makes the ailerons feel heavier and slightly less effective, and causes a marked nose-down pitching moment, readily corrected owing to the juxtaposition of trim and flap operating wheels. If the engine is opened up to simulate a baulked landing with flaps and undercarriage down, the airplane becomes tail-heavy but can easily be held with one hand while trim is adjusted. Normal approach speed is 90 mph. At speeds above 100 mph, the pilot has the impression of diving, and below 80 mph one of sinking. At 90 mph the glide path is reasonably steep and the view fairly good. Longitudinally the airplane is markedly stable, and the elevator heavier and more responsive than is usual in single-seater fighters. These features add considerably to the ease of approach. Aileron effectiveness is adequate; the rudder is sluggish for small movements.

I would suggest better research if you came to the conclusion that the magnetos switch operated the flaps.

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf109cockpit/CockpitPortMap.html

[Crumpp]

Longitudinal Trim
Five three-quarter turns of a 11.7 in diameter wheel on the pilot's left are needed to move the adjustable tailplane through its full 12-degrees range. The wheel rotation is in the natural sense. Tailplane and elevator angles to trim were measured at various speeds in various condition; the elevator angles were corrected to constant tail setting. The airplane is statically stable both stick fixed and stick free.

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/9378/flybf109.html


This book also covers the Me-109 controls and instruments in detail.

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=62-190322327x-0

Crumpp

[Krusty]

Where are the aileron trims then?