Author Topic: Colin Powell vs. Barack Obama (Read 1196 times)

Wotan · « **Reply #30 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:30:50 AM »

Sure sign you are a liberal...

Refuse to admit it and claim you are a "middle roader". Sounds like Kerry...

Liberal

“I can’t really classify myself because I just don’t like labels”

Conservative

“I am a conservative”

I don’t know enough about DMF but banana by all appearances you are left of center. At least with your AH BBS posting history.

Who else would start a thread like this?

Liberal vs. Liberal

You can decide which is which...

Back on topic,

I wouldn’t vote for either. I know enough about Powell but I can't see how anyone who only heard Obama for the first time last night could be already thinking "presidential run". If you read the transcripts or actually listened to the words in his speech you know he didn’t say a whole lot of anything outside the typical liberal egalitarian mantra.

Sikboy · « **Reply #31 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:32:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by banana
It isn't sitting on the fence. It's being on different sides of the fence depending which issue you're debating.

Would "crossing the fence" have worked better for you?

Considering I feel the same way as you, I certainly hope I wasn't being demeaning in trying to "label" you, since whatever the outcome would be, it would apply to me just as much as you and Levi.

-Sik

Curval · « **Reply #32 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:33:58 AM »

So...to be a good republican you lean right and stay right on every single issue? Don't you guys have a personal opinion? You can't disagree with the President or the Republican Party on any issue because that means you are leaning left?

My God....you guys are just obediant slaves. I feel sorry for you...I really do.

Wanker · « **Reply #33 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:44:21 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
Sure sign you are a liberal...

Refuse to admit it and claim you are a "middle roader". Sounds like Kerry...

Liberal

“I can’t really classify myself because I just don’t like labels”

Conservative

“I am a conservative”

LOL Wotan. You make it sound like the highest form of intellectualism is to proclaim that "I am a conservative" or "I am a liberal".

To me, that's the highest form of narrow-mindedness.

Wotan · « **Reply #34 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:49:06 AM »

Curval,

Who said that? Please provide quotes.

There are liberal republicans (Powell) and conservative democrats (Miller).

It would seem you are confused on that. However you can recognize who’s what by the consistent theme that develops as they speak out on particular issues.

Curval · « **Reply #35 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:52:37 AM »

Wotan, I call it how I read it on these boards.

Rip is like a republican Boroda for heavans sake.

Wotan · « **Reply #36 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:57:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by banana
LOL Wotan. You make it sound like the highest form of intellectualism is to proclaim that "I am a conservative" or "I am a liberal".

To me, that's the highest form of narrow-mindedness.

No there are some folks who are issue specific voters. Then there are those who are just too weak willed to come out and say exactly what they are.

There's no denying that I am far to the right (not religious). I voted for Pat Buchanan in 2000. I won’t vote for Bush and damn sure won't vote for Kerry.

But as I said you can recognize a liberal by the issues he's speaks out on. I don't think there is anything wrong with just coming out and saying "I am a Liberal". But most don't, they skate around it with stuff like "I don't like to label myself".

Everyone who knows Kerry's record knows he is a liberal. But he will no more admit then you.

Wotan · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2004, 11:58:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval
Wotan, I call it how I read it on these boards.

Rip is like a republican Boroda for heavans sake.

Np there I just didnt get the same impression and I am no Rip lover.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #38 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:09:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
No there are some folks who are issue specific voters. Then there are those who are just too weak willed to come out and say exactly what they are.

You paint an incomplete picture. The electorate does contain issue specific voters just as it contains truly partisan and ideological left-leaning Democrats and truly partisan and ideological right-leaning Republicans. Those independents in the middle do not necessarily engage in issue voting, but rather their positions on ranges of issues may not fall consistently either right or left of the median. Such voters do not eschew labels, but labelling them proves difficult at best. The sorts of cues they take when deciding their vote must fundamentally differ from those taken by more partisan voters.

Interestingly, a core group of independent voters changes parties with some regularity. As it turns out, this group of transient partisans most strongly influences the general election when you aggregate vote choice. Thus while Rip decries so-called "fence sitting," it is in fact the true fence sitters who control presidential elections.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Sikboy · « **Reply #39 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:12:04 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

Interestingly, a core group of independent voters changes parties with some regularity. As it turns out, this group of transient partisans most strongly influences the general election when you aggregate vote choice. Thus while Rip decries so-called "fence sitting," it is in fact the true fence sitters who control presidential elections.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Hey, that's what I just said. Only all educated and ****.

-Sik

Wotan · « **Reply #40 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:20:47 PM »

You are right. It's more complex then my simple reply above but the point I was making is that there are an awful lot of "liberals" who for whatever reason think "liberalism" is a bad word. They aren't trying to avoid "labels" just that particular one.

Some vote on things as simple as "personality". Take Obama he didn’t really say much but some folks seem ready to vote for him today.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #41 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:28:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
They aren't trying to avoid "labels" just that particular one.

Credit the Republicans (and Reagan in particular) for making "liberal" a political dirty word even if the label fits appropriately. It now carries political baggage, and note how people like Ripsnort use the term derisively rather than descriptively.

The Democrats truly dropped the ball on that one. What kind of a party allows their own labels to be used against them?

-- Todd/Leviathn

Sikboy · « **Reply #42 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:29:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
What kind of a party allows their own labels to be used against them?

-- Todd/Leviathn

A Damn Dirty liberal party, that's who

-Sik

Wanker · « **Reply #43 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:36:25 PM »

I just don't understand what the hangup is over labels. Why do you guys feel compelled to be labelled?

I don't feel liberal or conservative are "dirty" words. But why the compulsion to box yourself in with a label?

J_A_B · « **Reply #44 on:** July 28, 2004, 12:47:51 PM »

Well it's a lot easier to use a label than to write 5 paragraphs every time somebody asks you about your general outlook on life.

The trick is to find a label which is descriptive without bringing unwanted baggage along with it; this is no longer possible in the US with the terms "liberal" and "conservative".

J_A_B