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Author Topic: inverted V engines  (Read 848 times)

Offline 63tb

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inverted V engines
« on: July 28, 2004, 12:22:34 PM »
Folks,

Why did the 109 (and others?) have inverted V engines? Is there an advantage to that configuration? Did any allied plane use that configuration?

Also why didn't the early model 109s have a center mounted gun? The spinners look like they were made to accept them.

63tb
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Offline gwshaw

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Re: inverted V engines
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2004, 12:39:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 63tb
Folks,

Why did the 109 (and others?) have inverted V engines? Is there an advantage to that configuration? Did any allied plane use that configuration?
[/b]
Depending on how the reduction gearing is setup it should give a lower thrust line, allowing better view over the nose. Having the skinny part of the engine up top and the wide part down low also helps out with view to the front.
Quote

Also why didn't the early model 109s have a center mounted gun? The spinners look like they were made to accept them.

63tb

I don't think any engines it used prior to the DB 601 were designed to allow it.

Greg Shaw
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Offline J_A_B

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inverted V engines
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2004, 01:35:45 PM »
There were several  American-made inverted-vee engines during the war years but none of them were really mass-produced.

The  Ranger engine was inverted, as was the trouble-prone  Continental.  

J_A_B
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Offline Grits

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Re: inverted V engines
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2004, 02:03:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 63tb
Also why didn't the early model 109s have a center mounted gun? The spinners look like they were made to accept them.


They did early on with the 109B, but the gun jammed badly so they changed to wing mounted with the 109C.
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2004, 05:50:17 PM »
They tried for almost every 109 version to allow a gun to shoot through the hub. Early guns had vibration problems, were in and of themselves unreliable, not to mention on top of that jamming because of engine vibration. It wasn't until the -F that a reliable cannon was made and a reliable way of mounting it was established.
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Offline 63tb

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inverted V engines
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2004, 06:18:03 PM »
Was it always a cannon they tried mounting thru the hub or did they try MGs too?

63tb
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2004, 06:22:18 PM »
They tried mounting Mg17 7.92mm in the engines. The Bf109B intended to mount 3 MG17 - 2 over and 1 in the engine.
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Offline Krusty

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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2004, 07:35:58 PM »
It had the same problems of the cannon attempts. There was one short-run production where there were 5 MGs, 2 in cowl, 2 in wings, 1 in engine firing through the hub, but it was quickly changed to just 2 in cowling and 2 in wings.
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Offline 63tb

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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2004, 07:48:48 PM »
Why was the engine mount so tough? The barrel is the only part that goes through the engine, right? Why would the main part of the gun have a tougher time in the body of the plane than in the wing? There's more G forces and flexing in a wing mount.

63tb
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2004, 07:52:25 PM »
Inadequate gun cooling and vibration were some of the main issues.
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Offline Angus

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« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2004, 12:30:26 PM »
inverted vee also allows the cowling guns firing through the prop.
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Offline Krusty

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inverted V engines
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2004, 12:41:01 PM »
You could do that anyways. It all just depended on the layout. For example the A-36 Apache had 2x 50cal firing out below the engine (it had a V, not an inverted V). I wouldn't say that having an inverted V allowed that, as you could do it anyway. It was just a matter of how things were designed.
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2004, 01:25:29 PM »
wasnt the hole in early 109's spinner an oil cooler or something?
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2004, 01:53:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
wasnt the hole in early 109's spinner an oil cooler or something?


No, but I have read that the hole was left for general cooling purposes even after theyt gave up on the engine mounted gun. But this hole was closed up on many 109E4 and IIRC all E7 spinners so I'm not sure it had any purpose at all. As for oil coolers, up tp the 109E they had the oil cooler in a small fairing under the wing. The 109E moved it to under the engine after the main radiator was moved from the nose to the wings.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2004, 01:55:46 PM by GRUNHERZ »
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2004, 02:00:44 PM »
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
No, but I have read that the hole was left for general cooling purposes even after theyt gave up on the engine mounted gun. But this hole was closed up on many 109E4 and IIRC all E7 spinners so I'm not sure it had any purpose at all. As for oil coolers, up tp the 109E they had the oil cooler in a small fairing under the wing. The 109E moved it to under the engine after the main radiator was moved from the nose to the wings.


Thanks! i got told by someone that works on wwii aircraft that it was a oil cooler.. i think he said oil cooler anyway.

Will see if i can stick my camera down the hole with flash and take a picture :D

109G

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