Author Topic: Is Kerry a hero?  (Read 4489 times)

Offline mosgood

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2004, 03:47:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Apparently you failed completely to comprehend that my "suppose I hire someone to walk five paces infront of me shouting out my accomplishments" is in fact an analogy to what Kerry is doing in his election campaign right now. You will never hear him say "I saved that mans life and I am soo damn good" because that would be counterproductive (his ultimate goal here is to be elected president remember) instead he hires someone who says it for him "Kerry saved that mans life and he is soo damn good".

Now, if you dont understand the inherent dishonesty in this arrangement, and if you dont understand that it is infact Kerry that is doing the bragging, although through proxies, then I cant help you. Sorry.



Doesn't every other politician do that as well?  They have people go out and speak for them.  Tell epole how great they are so they don't have too.  Sure, I agree that Kerry is doing that as well.  It's just that most politicians don't have the Hero card to play.... or they would as well.

Offline Hortlund

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2004, 03:51:50 PM »
did you want me to talk to you or not? Make up your mind dammit.

Offline Eagler

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2004, 03:53:18 PM »
he's a hero to the handsomehunk crats

you know - the ones which keep re-electing the likes of "All we have to fear is .. 4 more years of Bush" drunk murdering kennedy...
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Offline GRUNHERZ

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2004, 03:55:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Lied?

How would you know if he lied?


Plenty here to cast doubts on his legitimacy...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/23/kerry.vietnam/

Offline Edbert

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2004, 03:55:45 PM »
Unsubtantiated fodder from an unconfirmed source...FWIW:
_______________________
"I was in the Delta shortly after he [Kerry] left. I know
that area well. I know the operations he was involved in
well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the
equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I
spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats),
Kerry's command.

"Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and
collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple
hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked
with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the
River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast,
and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a
commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could
draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major
rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot
areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor
that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was
putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head
on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost
always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At
least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the
three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months
before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the
Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was
fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the
launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with
the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots
Charlie, and retrieves the launcher. If true, he did
everything wrong.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put
your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40
has the ballistic integrity of a Frisbee after about 25
yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach
and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50
caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The
rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after
him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just
flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on
earth, and you wanted some daring do in your after-action
report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules
against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of
standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a
boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had
somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It
couldn't run and it couldn't return fire. It was stupid and
it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and
reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving
a boat during or after a firefight.

"Something is fishy.

"Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court
martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple
people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer)
who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get a good tan,
collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where
lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months
early, requests separation from active duty a few months
after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heroes
don't sell well in Massachusetts in 1970 so reinvents
himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with
the cameras running to jump start his political career,
gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and
Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds
up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against
every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after
the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big
mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the
same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops,
that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really
didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow
him to go to war.

"I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out
flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in
Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some
facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut
it's wildly inflated. And fishy."

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2004, 03:55:56 PM »
George Bush Jr= Micheal Moore.
-SW

Offline Hortlund

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2004, 03:59:22 PM »

Offline Martlet

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2004, 04:01:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
Not at all. Show me where Kerry made statements that he was a war hero. I'd like to see them.


He didn't say Kerry called himself a war hero.  He said " being sure to parade that feat for political purposes ".

Kerry didn't talk to this guy for 30+ years, then trots him out when he is running for President.

It doesn't matter whether or not you consider what he did heroic, but to claim he isn't parading it around for political purposes is idiotic.

Offline SaburoS

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2004, 04:11:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Apparently you failed completely to comprehend that my "suppose I hire someone to walk five paces infront of me shouting out my accomplishments" is in fact an analogy to what Kerry is doing in his election campaign right now. You will never hear him say "I saved that mans life and I am soo damn good" because that would be counterproductive (his ultimate goal here is to be elected president remember) instead he hires someone who says it for him "Kerry saved that mans life and he is soo damn good".


I comprehended exactly what you said in this post and earlier. Seems you have a problem with it.
You care to show proof of that or are you just assuming now. Care to show the facts?

Let's clear this up.

Your first statement here you inferred that Kerry bragged about being a hero.
I have yet personally see any statement by him that backs you up there. You have yet to post anything to back you up. I'm sure you probably Googled it but failing to find anything, you made an assumed/theory that you furnish as proof. You have any proof of this latest statement as well? I'd sure like to see it.

BTW,
Quote
bragging: to talk boastfully : engage in self-glorification


I asked for proof, you couldn't furnish it. You had to insult instead, not surprising coming from you, btw.

Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Now, if you dont understand the inherent dishonesty in this arrangement, and if you dont understand that it is infact Kerry that is doing the bragging, although through proxies, then I cant help you. Sorry.


Any proof? Please post it.

All I see from you here is that failing to provide proof of an earlier statement, you present a theory of a possible scenario in the Kerry camp.

You need to get off that high horse you ride. Arrogance is quite unbecoming of you.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Eagler

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2004, 04:14:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
George Bush Jr= Micheal Moore.
-SW


you're young but you ain't that stupid

change your lure
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Offline SaburoS

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2004, 04:18:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
He didn't say Kerry called himself a war hero.  He said " being sure to parade that feat for political purposes ".

Kerry didn't talk to this guy for 30+ years, then trots him out when he is running for President.

It doesn't matter whether or not you consider what he did heroic, but to claim he isn't parading it around for political purposes is idiotic.


What do you do, jump in the middle of a thread ignoring the first part?

He claimed Kerry bragged about it.

He didn't. I have yet to see proof he did.

Oh I agree that this latest 'promotion' is for political purposes. That's what political parties and politicians do. Every political party brings out the positives in their candidate. It would be stupid not to, no?
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Hortlund

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2004, 04:21:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
It has been arranged so he doesnt have to say it himself. His minions do that for him, and all he has to do is say stuff like "when I was in Vietnam" or "when I came back from Vietnam"...that and have a thousand photo ops with his old "war buddies".
 


Do you honestly need me to prove this Saburo? Just turn on the tv for crying out loud, its the DNC right now, you can probably catch a good 20 hours of it.

Offline SaburoS

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2004, 04:27:41 PM »
This is rich.
Back on topic.
Hmmm, so maybe Kerry did rescue a fellow soldier in Vietnam.
Does that make him a hero?
Outside of his political leanings, would you concider what he did heroic?

Added:
He's running for the most important position in the United States.
You expect him to suppress it? You expect the political party he's in to sweep it under the rug?
Every single candidate has used their positives for promotion.
Cunningham in his Vietnam service. Eisenhower.
How is what Kerry doing that is so 'dishonest' and 'bragging'?

Oh I get it. It's because he's a Democrat!
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline Martlet

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2004, 04:27:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SaburoS
What do you do, jump in the middle of a thread ignoring the first part?

He claimed Kerry bragged about it.

He didn't. I have yet to see proof he did.

Oh I agree that this latest 'promotion' is for political purposes. That's what political parties and politicians do. Every political party brings out the positives in their candidate. It would be stupid not to, no?


Don't blame me because you can't follow a thread.  

Where I quoted, he DIDN'T say he bragged about it.  Hortland did.  I was commenting on YOUR reply to muckmaw.   Let me refresh your memory, since you're having trouble following.

muckmaw said:  "And being sure to parade that feat for political purposes really negates some of the valor of the act in my book."

You quoted that, and asked "Where has he done that?"


Then muckmaw quoted that, and said:  "You're kidding, right?


From today's news alone...5 seconds worth of searching...

"Making the slow journey across the harbor with him were a dozen members of the Navy swift boat he commanded in Vietnam, along with Jim Rassmann, a Special Forces solider whose life Kerry saved"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...nvention_rdp_18

__________________"


Then you quoted THAT, and said:  "
Not at all. Show me where Kerry made statements that he was a war hero. I'd like to see them."

Then I responded.  You can't even keep track of your own conversation.  NOW you admit muckmaw was right to begin with, after arguing that point originally.  You've been hanging around Kerry too long.  Flip Flop Flip Flop.

Offline AKS\/\/ulfe

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Is Kerry a hero?
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2004, 04:29:09 PM »
Kerry = War Hero.

Bush Jr = War Zero.
-SW