The myth about taxes

[_Schadenfreude_]

So how much tax do you actually pay at present then - as a % of earnings?

Here it's 22% for the first $58k and after that it's 40% on anything over $58k.

Earnings under I think $18k are not taxed.

[Steve]

I got tired of paying taxes while others merely had their hands out. Started my own business and almost everything I purchase now is tax deductible.  I bought a 33K vehicle for work and will write the entire amount offf for 2004.  You can do this once a year... you think maybe I'll be buying another vehicle in 2005?

[TweetyBird]

>>Well it's established from my link in the other thread that the government is getting 80% of their money from the top 20%. You are saying this is somehow not true. Can you demonstrate that?

<<

As Curly would say - "coytainly!"

If I buy a car from GMC, included in the price along with labor cost, overhead etc., is tax expense (not to be confused with tax and liscense which is written clearly on the bill of sale).  Its simple arithmetic to figure how much tax (income, property etc.) is being paid on each unit. That amount is added to the price of the unit. So the consumer pays his portion of the tax for GMC when buying the unit. GMC pays no portion of the tax on the sold unit. So if thats the only unit GMC sold and incurred a $50 tax liability for selling that unit, GMC writes out a check for $50 to the IRS and claims they paid more taxes than the guy who bought the unit. But didn't the guy who bought the unit pay that $50 when it was included in the price of the unit?

Now, if the car bought is a taxi cab - great!! The guy who bought the unit can pass that $50 off on his customers. So each person who gets into the cab pays an extra nickle to make up for that $50.  So - who payed the $50? GMC? The taxie cab driver? The cab customers?

Headlines!!

GMC pays $50 a year in taxes
Taxicab drivers and customers pay nothing?

Its smoke and mirrors

GMC paid nothing
Taxi paid nothing
End of the chain customers paid the $50

but more realistic is

GMC claimed a loss and got a tax deduction
Taxi depreciated the vehicle and got a deduction
End of chain customers paid the $50 and owe a little more to pay off the credits comming from the deductions claimed by GMC and Taxi.

IRS people call this the two prong screw

[CyranoAH]

I say, outsource the government!

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Well it's established from my link in the other thread that the government is getting 80% of their money from the top 20%. You are saying this is somehow not true. Can you demonstrate that?

<<

As Curly would say - "coytainly!"

If I buy a car from GMC, included in the price along with labor cost, overhead etc., is tax expense (not to be confused with tax and liscense which is written clearly on the bill of sale).  Its simple arithmetic to figure how much tax (income, property etc.) is being paid on each unit. That amount is added to the price of the unit. So the consumer pays his portion of the tax for GMC when buying the unit. GMC pays no portion of the tax on the sold unit. So if thats the only unit GMC sold and incurred a $50 tax liability for selling that unit, GMC writes out a check for $50 to the IRS and claims they paid more taxes than the guy who bought the unit. But didn't the guy who bought the unit pay that $50 when it was included in the price of the unit?

Now, if the car bought is a taxi cab - great!! The guy who bought the unit can pass that $50 off on his customers. So each person who gets into the cab pays an extra nickle to make up for that $50.  So - who payed the $50? GMC? The taxie cab driver? The cab customers?

Headlines!!

GMC pays $50 a year in taxes
Taxicab drivers and customers pay nothing?

Its smoke and mirrors

GMC paid nothing
Taxi paid nothing
End of the chain customers paid the $50

but more realistic is

GMC claimed a loss and got a tax deduction
Taxi depreciated the vehicle and got a deduction
End of chain customers paid the $50 and owe a little more to pay off the credits comming from the deductions claimed by GMC and Taxi.

IRS people call this the two prong screw

your post is flawed at best.  If you think GMC in that scenerio paid no taxes we are done talking cause you just dont get it.

Also companys have to do this thing call MAKE PROFITS in order to survive as a company and employ all the people that consume thier goods.  SO yes if they have to pay taxes they are going to try and make a margin to cover it otherwise no profit.

SECOND:  If you thing I as a low income worker pay more taxes than a high income person you are SORELY mistaken.  If somone who makes a million dollars in a year pays 40% taxes on his income he will PAY MORE IN TAXES THAN I WILL CONSUME IN ABOUT 20 YEARS

your theory makes about as much sense as blind people playing golf during the daytime.

[Steve]

Nice try Tweety.  It brutally ignores reality, but nice try.

Here's a fact for you... FACT: the top 2% of the wealthiest Americans pay 46% of all income tax.

FACT:
The bottom 50% of the wealthiest American pay less than 10% of income taxes.

[mietla]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
IMO, taxes should be proportionate to the assets protected by the US goverment.  

I'll bet that you've never had more than a buck and fifty cents in your portfolio.

[TweetyBird]

>>Nice try Tweety. It brutally ignores reality, but nice try.
<<

Ok- then show me the error of my ways.

Hypothetical:

The US goverment imposes on all automobile manufacturers a $5000 tax on every car sold.

What happens?

A) All car cxompanies start recording  losses and go out of business,  because the tax has stripped them of all their profits?

B)The price of cars go up $5000?

I'd guess B - what you think, Steve?

Now if its B,

A)has the car manufacturer started paying more taxes?
B)Has the car purchaser started paying more taxes?

Again, seems like B to me. But on paper it would look like the manufacturer was paying enormous taxes, when if fact, the consumer was paying enormous taxes. An ya know what. Thats exactly the reality of whats going on. Your stats of who is paying most of the taxes nothing more than than a stat of who is collecting most of the taxes.

Funny how people can warm up to trickle down economics, but can't (most likely won't) see how taxes are passed down the line.


Mietla, I had $1.50 in my portfolio but bought of hamburger and it wiped me out.

Of that 1.50, 10 cents went to the IRS. The hamburger stand collected it and will send it in when they"pay" their corporate taxes. In statistics, they get credit for the dime -not me.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Nice try Tweety. It brutally ignores reality, but nice try.
<<

Ok- then show me the error of my ways.

Hypothetical:

The US goverment imposes on all automobile manufacturers a $5000 tax on every car sold.

What happens?

A) All car cxompanies start recording  losses and go out of business,  because the tax has stripped them of all their profits?

B)The price of cars go up $5000?

I'd guess B - what you think, Steve?

Now if its B,

A)has the car manufacturer started paying more taxes?
B)Has the car purchaser started paying more taxes?

Again, seems like B to me. But on paper it would look like the manufacturer was paying enormous taxes, when if fact, the consumer was paying enormous taxes. An ya know what. Thats exactly the reality of whats going on. Your stats of who is paying most of the taxes nothing more than than a stat of who is collecting most of the taxes.

Funny how people can warm up to trickle down economics, but can't (most likely won't) see how taxes are passed down the line.


Mietla, I had $1.50 in my portfolio but bought of hamburger and it wiped me out.

Of that 1.50, 10 cents went to the IRS. The hamburger stand collected it and will send it in when they"pay" their corporate taxes. In statistics, they get credit for the dime -not me.

yes this is true....business passes expenses on to the consumer....they have to make a "PROFIT" in order to stay in business.

BUT I'm only going to buy one car every couple of years....AND I cannot spend more money than I actually make......SO I as a low income person do NOT pay as much taxes as a person that makes twice...or three times as much as me.

[Steve]

Tweety, you're ignoring the FACTS.  See my previous post.  You're trying to confuse sales tax w/ income tax, denied.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Steve
Tweety, you're ignoring the FACTS.  See my previous post.  You're trying to confuse sales tax w/ income tax, denied.

steve he's also trying to say that the poor and middle class pay more taxes because business passes taxes on to them

and in some wierd way this equates to the rich not paying thier fair share.......something strait out of the DNC talking points.


Tweaty AGAIN

if I make 30K a year....I can ONLY spend 30K a year

If I'm only SPENDING 30K a year....according to you...business is only paying taxes on what they sell me wich is not that much compared to somone who makes 200K a year in wich 60K of that is going strait to the govt for personal income taxes.  

In conclusion somone who makes 200K a  year (IE "rich" according to kerry) is taxed by the govt twice as much money than I actually make!

plus they have more money to consume to business......again the rich pay the taxes in the country.....no matter how you look at it.

Business....they pay their taxes too.....since when is it a bad thing to want to make a profit?

[Saurdaukar]

2+3=5.  I think.

[TweetyBird]

>>if I make 30K a year....I can ONLY spend 30K a year

If I'm only SPENDING 30K a year....according to you...business is only paying taxes on what they sell me wich is not that much compared to somone who makes 200K a year in wich 60K of that is going strait to the govt for personal income taxes.
<<

According to the BLS consumer expenditure survey, 60% of the money spent by consumers is spent by people making less than $70,000 a year. Now the trick is find what percentage of the money spent in the US each year goes to cover things like corporate taxes. We know how much they are spending, we know who (by income) is spending what, just have to find the average amout in the cost of goods is cover the business' taxes....
hmmm

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>if I make 30K a year....I can ONLY spend 30K a year

If I'm only SPENDING 30K a year....according to you...business is only paying taxes on what they sell me wich is not that much compared to somone who makes 200K a year in wich 60K of that is going strait to the govt for personal income taxes.
<<

According to the BLS consumer expenditure survey, 60% of the money spent by consumers is spent by people making less than $70,000 a year. Now the trick is find what percentage of the money spent in the US each year goes to cover things like corporate taxes. We know how much they are spending, we know who (by income) is spending what, just have to find the average amout in the cost of goods is cover the business' taxes....
hmmm

hmmmm.....how bout the trick is to think about how ANY expense a big bad evil business has is passed on.....OR add as a cost of doing business.

all business pay taxes

your argument here is libral trife and makes no sesnse....everyone pays taxes....rich people pay most of them.

[TweetyBird]

>>hmmmm.....how bout the trick is to think about how ANY expense a big bad evil business has is passed on.....OR add as a cost of doing business.

all business pay taxes
<<

Never once said business was evil or faulted them for passing their expenses (including their tax burden) on to the consumer.


Now that second part doesn't add up. If,and you seem to, agree that "ANY expense" (including taxes) are passed on, how do you say they pay taxes? They pass the consumer the tax by adding it to the purchase price, the consumer pays the price, the business takes out the tax portion and sends it off to the IRS. Are you telling me the business PAID the tax and not the consumer, or is it more accurate the business collected the tax from the consumer at the time of purchase?

BTW Steve, this has nothing to do with sales tax which is clearly written on a receipt. This is about the cost of doing business(TAXES, insurance, salaries ....) being included in the price you paid for the item.

I would love to see a price tag that says "10% of the price of this object goes toward Federal taxes."