Author Topic: hoe'ers (Read 2221 times)

FT_Animal · « **Reply #15 on:** August 01, 2004, 03:29:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.

It takes 2 to *complete* an HO, like it or not. it only takes 1 to roll out of it. Playing chicken when someone attempts to HO you is YOUR mistake.

NEXT!!!!

Anim

FT_Animal · « **Reply #16 on:** August 01, 2004, 03:30:47 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by FT_Animal
It takes 2 to *complete* an HO, like it or not. it only takes 1 to roll out of it. Playing chicken when someone attempts to HO you is YOUR mistake.

NEXT!!!!

Anim

Of course, unless you're smart enough to sissor the arswipe.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #17 on:** August 01, 2004, 03:47:27 PM »

Yes it does take two to HO

You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.
Whereas if you do a HO pass holding the nose straight without manuvering to avoid the shot then you are going HO even if you dont shoot.
By and large a good deal of so called HO shots, arent
Many of them are deflection shots.
Some guys here seem to manage to get the shot even if HO avoiding tactics are used I swear some folks seem to be able to get their planes to fly sideways cause thats the only way they were able to get that kinda shot on me.
Could be blamed on lag I suppose but even with lag some of these shots are at awful crazy angles
I gave up trying to figure that one out.

I remember long ago and far away in the first year or so I played AW It was almost an unwriten rule that you didnt fire (or HO) on the initial merge and all dogfighting seemed to happen after the first merge at which point anything went.
Those were the days when calls of "bingo ammo" had meaning and as a point of honor you would let that pilot go especially if he just gave you a gopod fight and was obviously trying to egress provided you got and understood the message before you blew said opponent out of the sky. And often if you did and realised it it wasnt uncommon to see messages like "Sorry didnt realise you were bingo"

I remember one time when I first got the hang of the 38 in AW I ended up fighting and killing one atfter the other no less then 6 planes I musta really been in "the zone" cause no sooner would I kill one then another would show up and I'd kill him . Several times I tried to egress but one after the other would show up and I'd killed that one too.
Finally I just managed to find the time to type "I JUST WANNA GO HOME!" I musta proved myself worthy cause the next message I saw was fropm one of them saying "go ahead and land. Good fights "
To me that showed true honor and class.
But
Very rapidly Any form of honor amongst pilots has gone out the window first it degraded to only being seen in the morning hours when only a few people were on to its current form of being non existant.
I kinda miss those days. There were folks around that could really be described as a class act
But I know full well those days are long gone and never to return.
Now for the vast majority its all about the kill no matter how you get it. Gangbang, Horde, spawn camping, Mass vulching just for the sake of vulching (not to be mistaken for a feild capture attempt)
and yes HOing

Quote
Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.

33Vortex · « **Reply #18 on:** August 01, 2004, 05:16:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by xBarrelx
dang i'm sick of people saying it takes 2 to HO. that is complete bs. devil, just dive a little and put a little roll into it and u should be fine. but for u ppl that think it takes 2 to HO stfu, it doesnt. until i learned the proper way to avoid i always got hit, not wanting to stoup to shallow tactics like that. just because i go straight at my opponent when merging doesnt mean that i'm HOing, learn that. ever duel? usually you go straight at each other, no HOing. HOing consists of someone opening fire while merging head on. i'll go at my opponent, let him HO, avoid it, and come up hi on his 6 if i have the e. doesnt mean i HOed, i never opened fire. stop pretending that it takes 2 to HO, it doesnt.

IMO if you are going HO and make no attempt to avoid getting shot at you DESERVE to be shot down because you are BEGGING for it! Diving as an attempt to avoid a HO is valid but it only transform the HO into a deflection shot, as DREDIOCK already said. I've seen many pilots make a slight turn, dive, climb or even roll to avoid getting hit, only to find out that I can sideslip using rudder and still have a good chance of hitting them. The ONLY way to avoid that shot is to do a barrel roll or some other form of continious direction/movement change maneuver, until you merge.

Oh and I don't pretend that it takes 2 for a HO, I know it for a fact. Try accomplishing a HO with someone who doesn't wanna do it and find out for yourself.

68DevilM · « **Reply #19 on:** August 01, 2004, 06:55:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes it does take two to HO

You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.

thats what i do!

useually both planes are trying to merge on eachother, and we'll come at eachother head on, sometimes im inverted because imm looking at his nose trying to givemyself enough room to get arond him and, sometimes it works sometimes they just yank up or push down on thier stick as hard as they can and catch me with some rounds.. any angle, unless im a good 600 under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?

kevykev56 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 01, 2004, 07:13:33 PM »

I have tried to avoid any and all HO's. It was very tireing getting shot down by this tactic. Trying to avoid it is only somewhat effective....La7s are the worst, and here IMHO is why.

When this happens you are desperatly trying to get under/around the plane that is attempting the HO. Problem for me is I am at a low E state following a turn, or any number of reasons. With planes that accelerate fast "such as the La" they have an maneuver advantage because there speed is higher. Even if your plane will out turn him he is higer E and able to get that HO shot/deflection shot that some call it. I have been very succesfull in avoiding it in AH 2 with the new FM. I feel that keeping E is so much more important now. Keep the speed up and you will avoid them more often than not. But when you are caught slow the HOers will alot of times get you.

Flying in the SE arena where you only have 1 life, you notice a completly different mentality and this HO is avoided like the plauge. If only there could be a way to keep people from trying the HO's in MA....how about perking late war planes!!! Sorry for the Hijack:D

RHIN0

68DevilM · « **Reply #21 on:** August 01, 2004, 09:18:00 PM »

did better tonight!

got some good kills, kept my speed up, made it the last man in a fight, with bigger numbers, made it home and, avoided hoes "like the plauge"

United · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2004, 10:02:18 PM »

Heres what I do.

When they come at me HO, I immediately know that they are at a disadvantage. Why? Because as they fire at me, I can manuever into a good position to reverse on them. Most people know this, unless they are the one HOing.

So, as they come at me I dip the nose down, hard, around 1.5k or so, just outside of guns range. As they follow me down, they miss because of the steep dive angle Im at. Then, as they fly over, I just go into a loop. If they extend, I find myself higher than them, and can just do it again if they come HOing at me. Sooner or later they will get bored and move on or just try to turn with me.

If they do a horizontal turn, then the looping puts you on their 6 and it will be fairly easy to get a firing solution.

If they do a loop, just go level and use that time to gain a little bit of E. As they come close, point the nose up and put them in a rope-a-dope.

Its fairly easy to beat the HO. All you have to do is not give and and dont lose your cool if you get a hit or 2 on you.

68DevilM · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2004, 10:48:09 PM »

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Yes it does take two to HO

You dont have to actually shoot to be doing a HO. There is a difference between going HO and Taking a HO shot. When you go into your dive or other manuver to avoid his shot your no longer in a HO mode. or your denying or avoiding the HO because your no longer passing nose to nose so's to speak. You no longer flying straight at one another.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thats what i do!

useually both planes are trying to merge on eachother, and we'll come at eachother head on, sometimes im inverted because imm looking at his nose trying to givemyself enough room to get arond him and, sometimes it works sometimes they just yank up or push down on thier stick as hard as they can and catch me with some rounds.. any angle, unless im a good 600 under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?

quote by 68devilm 4 posts back

__________________
FEAR THE REAPER NO MORE, FEAR THE 68TH

simshell · « **Reply #24 on:** August 02, 2004, 01:46:53 AM »

i get more then 50% of people trying to get out of the way of my HO shot when im flying my Mosquito i just zoom in on there plane see what there trying Roll or split S then i fire a ton of 20mms way ahead of them and i get them more then not

tho i dont like doing HO shots in single Eng fighters maybe a 190a-8

33Vortex · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2004, 02:15:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 68DevilM
quote: another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?

There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.
This type of seemingly random maneuvering only happens when a pilot is already out of E (on the deck) with someone chasing him right on his tail. Simply put, it is just a desperate pilot trying to avoid getting shot.

68DevilM · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2004, 06:22:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by simshell
i get more then 50% of people trying to get out of the way of my HO shot when im flying my Mosquito i just zoom in on there plane see what there trying Roll or split S then i fire a ton of 20mms way ahead of them and i get them more then not

tho i dont like doing HO shots in single Eng fighters maybe a 190a-8

see stuff like this, is what this post intent was.

im just gonna start shooting rockets into ur cockpits from now on:D

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2004, 07:54:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 68DevilM
quote:
under them thier usually gonna get some hits on me. another thing what is this flips, looking, no control stuff people do when you on thier six. all thier doing is draining thier "e" but man they sure try, looks like thier just doing circles with thier joysticks?

quote by 68devilm 4 posts back

LOL that is probably the stupidest tactic used in the game. certainly the most comical.
I think they are trying to get me to laugh to death.
Once they start doing that I know they are already dead its just their bodies dont know it yet
I see people doing that I just hold my fire reduce throttle just enough to stay behind em and wait for them to either stop or auger.
Yanno whats even funnier is when they stop, you ping em and they panic and start doing it all over again.
Eventually they have bled off so much e doing this they might as well jus fly straight. You can just aim at the center of their axis and slice em and dice em with ease till they fall apart

A simple barrelroll is far more effective

TequilaChaser · « **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2004, 08:37:54 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by 33Vortex
There are some good techniques to make it difficult for whoever is on your six to hit you. Of course all maneuvering drains E to some extent, and it can bring the opponent even closer in on your six. However, what this maneuvering does is buy you time, time so that your buddies can get on his six and eliminate him.
This type of seemingly random maneuvering only happens when a pilot is already out of E (on the deck) with someone chasing him right on his tail. Simply put, it is just a desperate pilot trying to avoid getting shot.

is called "Jinking" or a "Gun Jink"

68DevilM · « **Reply #29 on:** August 02, 2004, 09:22:53 AM »

gota admit that when i first started seeing this "tactic"?

it almost confused me because i couldnt tell witch way he was gonna go but now i just let him basically kill himself:aok