Author Topic: Big Maps, what a joke  (Read 3392 times)

Offline Stang

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2004, 10:36:56 PM »
I can only pray HT disabled it because it's so porked and they are fixing it, but in the meanwhile, knowing how bad it sucks, he did it so we all wouldn't lose perks getting run down by a zeke in the thing.  What a dog she is!

Offline phookat

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2004, 11:10:38 PM »
LOL, I bagged my first 262 the other day.  Thought it was my impressive skeelz. :D

Offline Murdr

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2004, 12:02:37 AM »
The complaints about the tendency of the large maps here are valid in my eyes.  However, I have never seen a map that it was impossible to furball/find small fight/bomb/gv on a limited basis (some more limited than others).  There are aspects of each of the big maps I like.  As long as like maps are not back to back to back in rotation (ie 3 solid weeks of pizza to bigilse to trinity) Im happy.

Offline MOIL

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2004, 12:16:47 AM »
"BISH JUST WONT DEFEND infact, very few players from all sides defend, so you end up with attacks here, attacks there....milk running even, due to the fact no one defends.

the problem is with the PEOPLE"


We defended with honor to the death!!
If it was ours, we defended it!!!

Offline Zazen13

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2004, 12:46:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
Hardly. Hording is what happens when there is only one or two places where your side has a base adjacent to an enemy base - that's where the horde will be. On big maps, there will be many more instances where green meets red. That's what the furballers whine about. They like the small maps because the furball is pretty much enforced between two bases.

But it doesn't matter. These threads have shown that both big and small maps are needed. Keep both, but make the rotation policy fair. :aok


That sounds wonerfull in theory beetle! I agree with you that logic should dictate that this would happen with a protracted front line. Heck, that's what happens in real war, it's necessary to avoid being flanked. However that's NOT what happens in AH. If that is actually what happened everyone would be happy as clams, but it doesn't happen and we're not happy about it at all. In Aces High, all a protracted front means is a country totally overwhelms another in an  isolated portion while another country overwhelms elsewhere. It's a horde-bang vulch fest plain and simple. As has been stated it's human nature to follow the path of least resistance, and unlike in real war there is very little if any concern for larger strategic objectives, such as avoiding being outflanked.

The odd fight tends to break out where one large'ish force meets another but quickly evaporates once one side clearly gains the upperhand, the losing side simply picks up their toys, heads to the other unguarded end and starts a gang-bang vulchfest of their own, if countered there they simply pick up and move once more. You can't blame them, they are just obeying basic human nature, why fight a losing battle in one place, when you can pick-up and go elsewhere and fight a battle you are certain to win?

At least on smaller maps the ability for one side to totally avoid the other is largely negated. Rather than a horde-bang vulch fest by one country, you end up with a large'ish furball and some perimiter fights of a much smaller scale along the periphery of the main fight focussed along a far more concentrated front-line.

Zazen
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 02:12:32 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline Zazen13

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2004, 12:53:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
ok...im not sure of the problem with bish, but big maps compound that problem......

BISH JUST WONT DEFEND infact, very few players from all sides defend, so you end up with attacks here, attacks there....milk running even, due to the fact no one defends.

the problem is with the PEOPLE

a map like festama with close bases on the edges will make "small map feel" while the center is more large map style....why? because people dont seem to wana fly 25miles anymore:(

Picture this
Me: hey guys A1 needs defending
nothing ups
rook horde gets into possition at a1
me: hey guys A1 needs help
bish: but its vulched
me: up from A2 then
bish: but thats 20miles away! ARRG
me: sigh


logged and went to CT

man i whine alot :lol .

oh and another thing, when one side is GANGED and with the least numbers, it normaly turns to the perk planes...262......WTF its disabled! so now we are punished even more!


This coming from a guy who has been pissin' and moaning for HUGE, ENORMOUS, GARGANTUAN FRIGGIN' MAPS for over a month and a half.......The irony of it, Overlag.


Whether the problem is with people or not is rather immaterial. A person can change their ways with some conscious effort, willpower and perseverance, people as a group WILL NEVER CHANGE.  I could give a long dissertation lecture on the psychological dynamics of 'group thinking', but I won't, you'll have to just trust me. Group thinking is a consciousness unto itself and is as set in its ways as a mountain of stone.

SO, if people won't change, CHANGE THE FRIGGIN MAP!! It's really, really, really simple. BIG, HUGE, GARGANTUAN MAPS DO NOT FRIGGIN WORK IN AH FOR AIR TO AIR COMBAT. Honestly, which is easier? Changing the inclinations, proclivities, desires, whims, and yearnings of 500 seperate individuals that comprise a group, or changing the friggin' HUGE maps!!!!!????????????

Common sense goes A LONG WAY in this World, some people need to grow some....


Zazen
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 01:59:48 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline beet1e

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2004, 05:15:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
The complaints about the tendency of the large maps here are valid in my eyes.  However, I have never seen a map that it was impossible to furball/find small fight/bomb/gv on a limited basis (some more limited than others).  There are aspects of each of the big maps I like.  As long as like maps are not back to back to back in rotation (ie 3 solid weeks of pizza to bigilse to trinity) Im happy.
Agreed! :) I posted about this some months ago, suggesting that it was a bad thing for Pizza to be followed by Big Isles. I haven't seen anyone praise Big Isles by the way.

I have accepted that we need both big and small maps to accommodate the somewhat catholic tastes of the player base. I would be happy with a 6-week cycle something like 1) Small maps 2) Pizza 3) Small maps 4) Trinity 5)FesterMA 6)OZKansas. I would get to play on at least 3 weeks out of 6. I hated the way HTC changed the rotation such that if a large map was reset, a small map took its place. :mad:

Zazen13 - my point about green meeting red was in reference to the juxtaposition of the green/red bases, not necessarily the distance between them. So on a small map, for example, there might be only a single pair of Bish/Rook bases which are adjacent - the other bases will be behind the ones forming that pair. Compare that with pizza, where there will be a much longer line of  adjacent green/red pairs.

I haven't seen the problems you describe on the large maps, but I don't play during USPT, and that makes a big difference. Coordination is not something I'm used to seeing in games like AH. ;)

Offline Overlag

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2004, 06:44:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
This coming from a guy who has been pissin' and moaning for HUGE, ENORMOUS, GARGANTUAN FRIGGIN' MAPS for over a month and a half.......The irony of it, Overlag.


Whether the problem is with people or not is rather immaterial. A person can change their ways with some conscious effort, willpower and perseverance, people as a group WILL NEVER CHANGE.  I could give a long dissertation lecture on the psychological dynamics of 'group thinking', but I won't, you'll have to just trust me. Group thinking is a consciousness unto itself and is as set in its ways as a mountain of stone.

SO, if people won't change, CHANGE THE FRIGGIN MAP!! It's really, really, really simple. BIG, HUGE, GARGANTUAN MAPS DO NOT FRIGGIN WORK IN AH FOR AIR TO AIR COMBAT. Honestly, which is easier? Changing the inclinations, proclivities, desires, whims, and yearnings of 500 seperate individuals that comprise a group, or changing the friggin' HUGE maps!!!!!????????????

Common sense goes A LONG WAY in this World, some people need to grow some....


Zazen


Zazen...i dont think you get the point of my post

there was LOADS of quality fights to be had, IF Bish had botherd to up at ANY base that was being attacked
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
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Offline beet1e

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2004, 06:54:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
Zazen...i dont think you get the point of my post

there was LOADS of quality fights to be had, IF Bish had botherd to up at ANY base that was being attacked
... but no, the AH way is to up from a third base in LA7 so as to come in with an alt advantage against the jabos attacking the town. On the small maps, they can be there in two minutes. On the larger maps like Pizza, that might take six whole minutes! The A.D.D. dolts have forgotten why they took off by the time it gets to the fifth minute. :lol  Far be it from them to up from the base being attacked. No. Much easier to whine about knit/rook milkrunning "undefended" bases. :rolleyes:;)

Offline Overlag

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2004, 10:00:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
... but no, the AH way is to up from a third base in LA7 so as to come in with an alt advantage against the jabos attacking the town. On the small maps, they can be there in two minutes. On the larger maps like Pizza, that might take six whole minutes! The A.D.D. dolts have forgotten why they took off by the time it gets to the fifth minute. :lol  Far be it from them to up from the base being attacked. No. Much easier to whine about knit/rook milkrunning "undefended" bases. :rolleyes:;)


hey i was upping from bases 25miles from the fight and having the "boring" "no point" 6 minute flight to the base that needs defending..........but 95.92% of players dont........;)
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Offline mars01

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #100 on: August 06, 2004, 10:17:32 AM »
Beetle your theory works great if you are the type of person that wants to reduce the fight and stop the other countries ability to fight back.

If you are the type of person that likes the idea of letting the other country's performance decide the outcome rather than their inability to up and defend themselves due to distance of supporting fields, hangers dead or the vulch light being lit, then your theory misses the boat.

There are two camps in this game, the ones that want to win by attrition and the one that want to win by fighting it out.  One is a very boring style the other is full of action.

I don't expect you to understand this, but there it is.

You theory also works great if your a....

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Offline Overlag

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #101 on: August 06, 2004, 10:34:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01


There are two camps in this game, the ones that want to win by attrition and the one that want to win by fighting it out.  One is a very boring style the other is full of action.



 


err to me they are both the same attrition of one side is made by fighting is it not?......but there is no attrition in this game theres unlimited resources, which means the game is total "fighting it out" as u call it
« Last Edit: August 06, 2004, 10:40:14 AM by Overlag »
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Offline beet1e

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #102 on: August 06, 2004, 10:38:48 AM »
ROFL! I'm printing that picture out, and will hang it on the wall behind my PC. :lol:lol:lol

I love the quarter slot - LOL! What's the rest of the tail text - Royal Something?

Thanks, Lala-boy - made my freaking day! :D:)

Offline Overlag

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #103 on: August 06, 2004, 10:45:28 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by beet1e
ROFL! I'm printing that picture out, and will hang it on the wall behind my PC. :lol:lol:lol

I love the quarter slot - LOL! What's the rest of the tail text - Royal Something?

Thanks, Lala-boy - made my freaking day! :D:)


its the RN skin for the f4u........
Adam Webb - 71st (Eagle) Squadron RAF Wing B
This post has a Krusty rating of 37

Offline mars01

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Big Maps, what a joke
« Reply #104 on: August 06, 2004, 10:49:05 AM »
You are arguing semantics, without considering context.

When the bases are too far apart - Meaning there are no support bases close enough to up and get to the base under attack in a timely manner - when the fighter hangers are killed or in the old system when fuel was killed etc that is attrition.  If you do anything to reduce the other countries ability to fight back then you are of the attrition camp.

If you rather pummel the other country by massive head to head combat, while not killing FH, Carrier, Fuel etc then you are of the Fight it out camp.  You have to push their wave back and cap their field.

Now I agree in choice and would not want to disallow people the right to drop bombs, so the only option is move the fields closer so there is a chance that you would be able to support a field that was currently out of commision due to dead FH or Vulch.

Six minutes between bases is not a timely distance.  Anyone decent at base capture will have the field in 3 mins.  With this being the case why would any up from another field to play the Johnny Come Lately role over and over?