Glad we have our priorities straight!

[Wotan]

That’s what I thought DmdBT. Typically some local politicians screw up the schools then cry about how they don’t have money to bail themselves out.

The liberal solution is to just through more money.

How about the citizens of Maryland and Baltimore demand that Baltimore account for every dollar to ensure its being used properly before crying about more funding.


The reason Leroy cant read isn't because we dont spend enough money. Its because his family has failed him.

[demaw1]

Curly........religious schools joke compared to public.

     Show me your proof curly Id reaaly like to see it.

       My oldest son by 8th grade, heading down the wrong road, good at home, but bad everywhere else.Kicked out of school ,whole nine yards. Sent him in 9 th grade to small somewhat run down christian school.

     It saved his life...by 12th grade he was all cif 1st team in football and baseball ...went from d grades to B...Only fights he got in was when bullys picked on smaller kids. after 1 and half years he was only in trouble for normal things,rowdy,yes. But change was so noticable by all.

    Was recruted for foot ball and has good job now.
    without this he would have had barrs for windows.
    I have seen this result to many times not to know that the result is true.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by demaw1
Curly........religious schools joke compared to public.

     Show me your proof curly Id reaaly like to see it.

       My oldest son by 8th grade, heading down the wrong road, good at home, but bad everywhere else.Kicked out of school ,whole nine yards. Sent him in 9 th grade to small somewhat run down christian school.

     It saved his life...by 12th grade he was all cif 1st team in football and baseball ...went from d grades to B...Only fights he got in was when bullys picked on smaller kids. after 1 and half years he was only in trouble for normal things,rowdy,yes. But change was so noticable by all.

    Was recruted for foot ball and has good job now.
    without this he would have had barrs for windows.
    I have seen this result to many times not to know that the result is true.

I didn't offer proof demaw, I offered personal observation.

Good news about your son.  

curly

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Westy
"superintended of the school system in Lynn failed the required test.."

  That does not surprise me and IMO it is completely irrelevant. It's been decades since the superintendant attended high school while on the other hand the Lynn high school kids had literally just studied the material being tested and SHOULD know it.

How is it irrelevant that someone supervising kids' education can't meet minimum requirements for a 12th grader? This isn't rocket science, and it isn't calculus -- they test for the minimum a HS graduate should know.

This speaks not only to the supervision the bureaucracy gives its own, but also to the effectiveness of the colleges that train our "certified" teachers and administrators.

[Simaril]

Originally posted by AKcurly
I didn't offer proof demaw, I offered personal observation.

Good news about your son.  

curly

I again question the objectivity of a personal observation that can claim "every" anything over 30 years of students. There is simply too much random variation over that time period to expect that EVERY non-public graduate fell below EVERY public graduate -- which seems to be your claim, curly.

you say you saw freshmen -- did you know the educational background of every student, or just check on the ones who didnt do well? Observer bias is about the only thing I can think of that could produce the results you claim, as we do tend to see what we expect after a while.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Simaril
I again question the objectivity of a personal observation that can claim "every" anything over 30 years of students. There is simply too much random variation over that time period to expect that EVERY non-public graduate fell below EVERY public graduate -- which seems to be your claim, curly.

you say you saw freshmen -- did you know the educational background of every student, or just check on the ones who didnt do well? Observer bias is about the only thing I can think of that could produce the results you claim, as we do tend to see what we expect after a while.

No, I didn't see every freshman.  I would typically have one freshman class per year.

Concerning your statement Observer bias is about the only thing I can think of that could produce the results you claim, I can think of several other possiblities ... the mostly likely being that my observations were correct.

Usually (not always), my freshman class was the first course of calculus.  Most of my public school students had completed a calculus sequence in high school and should have tested out of freshman calculus.  The private highschools in my area didn't offer the calculus sequence.

I saw a thin slice of highschool students.  Typically, they were math, cs, physics or chemistry majors with the infrequent biology major.

Maybe the private schools do as well (or better) than public schools with non-science subjects.  But in Oklahoma, the private school mathematics curricula is a joke.  Naturally, the students suffer.  And that is a fact, like it or not.

Perhaps there are private schools in Oklahoma which have decent mathematics curricula.  I never one of their students.

curly

[Simaril]

Originally posted by AKcurly

Usually (not always), my freshman class was the first course of calculus.  Most of my public school students had completed a calculus sequence in high school and should have tested out of freshman calculus.  The private highschools in my area didn't offer the calculus sequence.

curly

It seems to me that you've provided the answer to your observation -- and it has less to do with the quality of education than with curriculum choices and resources.

Your public school students had been exposed to calculus to the degree that "they probaby should have tested out" of the course. Esseentially, your segment of the public school graduate pool was filled with science kids who had enough background to almost not need your class. The denominator was skewed, in other words.

In that environment, even bright kids with otherwise good math backgrounds would look less capable. And, the lack of calculus doesnt necessarily generalize to overall poor education, which you at least imply in several posts.

My "religious non-catholic" private school didnt get me to calculus level, but the year after I graduated (1980) they reorganized the math pathway so college prep kids could skip one lower tier and get the course. At the college level, my starting calculus skills were behind some kids, though I still got an A. However, my history, sociology, biology, and especailly english, writing, and literature backgrounds were superior -- even in the context of my university's Honors Colloquium programs. Is that really the private high school systemic failure you've generalized about?

My exposure to private schools in Ohio is a bit different than Oklahoma, and that may also explain some of your experience. While we clearly have some "church basement" type schools, where the main goal is to avoid exposure to the world regardless of academic compromise, we also have a fair number of aggressive college prep type schools whose students routinely top out the state wide tests. We also have a number of Jr Ivy League prep schools -- and comparing puvblic schools with that standard just wouldnt be fair, both from a resource standpoint and from the preselected student body.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Simaril
It seems to me that you've provided the answer to your observation -- and it has less to do with the quality of education than with curriculum choices and resources.

Well, superior curriculum is one reason to choose a public school.  They have the resources to support a wide range of subjects.

In that environment, even bright kids with otherwise good math backgrounds would look less capable. And, the lack of calculus doesnt necessarily generalize to overall poor education, which you at least imply in several posts.

I can only judge by my experience.  My experience has been that private schools are weak in mathematics.  It is fair to conclude they are more than likely weak in other areas as well, especially the high resource areas like physics, chemistry or biology.

My "religious non-catholic" private school didnt get me to calculus level, but the year after I graduated (1980) they reorganized the math pathway so college prep kids could skip one lower tier and get the course. At the college level, my starting calculus skills were behind some kids, though I still got an A. However, my history, sociology, biology, and especailly english, writing, and literature backgrounds were superior -- even in the context of my university's Honors Colloquium programs. Is that really the private high school systemic failure you've generalized about?

I didn't characterize the private h.s. system as a failure nationwide.  I didn't even characterize it as a failure in Oklahoma.  I simply said it is inferior to public school education in Oklahoma.  And, as I've indicated all along, my remarks were based on my experience and not on reading some article published by a testing agency or some goofball with an agenda.

My exposure to private schools in Ohio is a bit different than Oklahoma, and that may also explain some of your experience. While we clearly have some "church basement" type schools, where the main goal is to avoid exposure to the world regardless of academic compromise, we also have a fair number of aggressive college prep type schools whose students routinely top out the state wide tests. We also have a number of Jr Ivy League prep schools -- and comparing puvblic schools with that standard just wouldnt be fair, both from a resource standpoint and from the preselected student body.

An important ingredient in the educational formula is parental involvement.  It seems reasonable to guess that students in private schools have parents who are more involved in their life than the average student.

curly

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by AKcurly
I can only judge by my experience.  My experience has been that private schools are weak in mathematics.  It is fair to conclude they are more than likely weak in other areas as well, especially the high resource areas like physics, chemistry or biology.

Curly, with a click of Google, you can find out the following information:

~Generally, students with higher scale scores reported higher levels of parental education. The more education parents had the higher the scores of their children.

~Both public and nonpublic schools showed increased scale scores for fourth- and eighth-grade students. Public schools showed increased scores for twelfth-grade students as well. Students attending nonpublic schools continued to outperform their peers attending public schools.

~Students eligible for the free/reduced-price lunch program administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) scored lower than those not eligible, for all three grades. Eligibility for free/reduced-price lunches is determined by the USDA's Income Eligibility Guidelines

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Curly, with a click of Google, you can find out the following information:

~Generally, students with higher scale scores reported higher levels of parental education. The more education parents had the higher the scores of their children.

~Both public and nonpublic schools showed increased scale scores for fourth- and eighth-grade students. Public schools showed increased scores for twelfth-grade students as well. Students attending nonpublic schools continued to outperform their peers attending public schools.

~Students eligible for the free/reduced-price lunch program administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) scored lower than those not eligible, for all three grades. Eligibility for free/reduced-price lunches is determined by the USDA's Income Eligibility Guidelines

Rip, with a click on Google, I can also find that Jesus Christ lives in Baltimore, Maryland.

Again, I am speaking about my experience in education in Oklahoma.  I have no interest (or opinion) about private school education in general.

curly

[Ripsnort]

On a side note that really has nothing to do with this topic:

... My ex-boss has a stay-at-home wife who home- schooled her 4 children. The youngest is now 15 and the oldest (22) is finishing up his bar exam (age 22) in Cali.  All kids were "finished" with highschool dips by avg. age of 15, all were finished with community college credits at age 16, and one graduated with a Masters at age 18.  Incredible...
~Edit: The kid doing his bar, finished highschool at age 13.

[FUNKED1]

Since when is the federal government supposed to fund schools?  That is the responsibility of the people in the county and city where that school is.  If they want a nicer school they should get off their tulips and pay for it.

[vorticon]

Originally posted by Wotan
Building a brand new school in those areas will just mean you will have a brand new toe' up skoo' the following year.

The education of kids in Baltimore is up to the citizens of Baltimore and Maryland to figure out. The Federal government shouldn't have anything to do with "education" in the first place.

but how is the government supposed to properly brainwash children if they dont have control ove the schools? we might end up with an entire generation of kids who beleive in silly concepts like 2+2 = 4

[Crumpp]

We need to get the Democrats in office.

I am sure they will form a committee, conduct a lengthy, through, and expensive study of the problem.  In the end they will conclude that:

What we need is more government and a bigger committee.  People need work you know.  It's not easy to have a liberal arts education and no real world skills.

I mean shouldn't the schools teach our children values and discipline??

Really, who has time for that?  There are only a finite number of hours in the day and I don't get enough ME time.  Sure don't want to waste it on parenting.



Crumpp