Author Topic: P-51 vs Ki-84 (Read 3794 times)

Tilt · « **Reply #30 on:** August 07, 2004, 12:07:55 PM »

In AW the Ki84 was the favoured japanese plane.......

With 1 notch of flap could turn with a spit IX but could not roll with it and after a prolonged period would lose e to the spit IX.

It was however faster than the Spit IX and could accelerate better particularly in dive however compression was problematic as the wings came of at hi g and during comprression speeds both were the likely out come.

Rudder authority was good (unlike AW's N1K2)

Its lethality was roughly equal to AW's Spit IX.

It did not carry quite the top speed of the P51 (in AW the P51 was the runstang) but it would out climb it and initially out accelerate it.

nopoop · « **Reply #31 on:** August 07, 2004, 12:18:20 PM »

84 vs the Pony in WB was a good matchup. If both knew there rides it was interesting.

Angus · « **Reply #32 on:** August 07, 2004, 12:30:19 PM »

Spit V will have a nice time with it

Karnak · « **Reply #33 on:** August 07, 2004, 01:47:16 PM »

Widewing,

Those Japanese tests were of the first and second prototypes using a less powerful engine and without their final details cleaned up. Nakajima engineers debriefed post war indicated it did about 410-415mph at best altitude.

There was a thread in the Aircraft & Vehicles forum where the fuel issue was discussed. One poster seemed to know what he was talking about and claimed the Ha-45 was designed for 87 octane fuel and was run at Japanese boost settings for the American test. Being faster in the American tests because of the factors you mentioned as well as that Ki-84's meticulous maintainance.

My point is that there are so many numbers out there for the Ki-84 that until HTC releases it we won't know how it performs in the context of AH. I expect 392mph best speed and ~350mph at SL. But I really don't know.

xBarrelx · « **Reply #34 on:** August 07, 2004, 08:29:26 PM »

i'm really hoping it does replace the spit/la7/niki. I can fly one plane at a time. either i choose one with strengths against one but cant find one that can be called a nik/spi/la7 killer all in one super uber ultra monster ride. at least if they're all flying the same thing i only have one plane to worry about out performing in some aspect. think about it. I can fly a zeke, which should out turn the spit/niki. but the la7 could out class me greatly in speed. same if i flew the hurricane. i'd be happy to only have to deal with the ki84.

Urchin · « **Reply #35 on:** August 07, 2004, 09:12:06 PM »

It won't replace any of the big 4. Depending on how it performs (if it is "better" than the Niki), all the Japanese pilots will switch over to it, so you'll probably see a 3-4% decrease in the overall use of the Niki, maybe a 1-2% decrease in the Spit 9. La-7 and P-51 numbers won't be effected, those are two different "communities".

sax · « **Reply #36 on:** August 07, 2004, 10:27:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Widewing
I don't get it.. While the Ki-84 is much welcomed, its performance is not superlative in any way.

Agreed Widewing.
I'm saying players of Levi's caliber are thinking lunch no matter what the icon says.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** August 07, 2004, 10:41:46 PM »

The biggest impact I see might be in the CT where F4U will now be featured more often in late PAC setups. In that case the rest will depend on how HTC models Ki-84 performance.

Mugzeee · « **Reply #38 on:** August 07, 2004, 10:43:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TBolt A-10
I'm glad to see the Hayate being added to our hangar. The plane is fast, but it's not uber & certainly should NOT be perked. Pilots will realize that once they try to do a 450-mph dive in order to chase the uber LaLa-7.

Now, the LaLa-7...THAT should be perked now that the Ki-84 is here. Maybe now...dweebs will see the difference between good and Uber.

Hayate?
I think we are getting the "Frank"

GScholz · « **Reply #39 on:** August 07, 2004, 11:21:52 PM »

Ki-84

"Hayate" - Japanese name

"Frank" - US code name

A6M

"Type Zero" or just "Zero" - Japanese name

"Zeke" - US code name

TBolt A-10 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:32:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Hayate?
I think we are getting the "Frank"

The Japanese call the Ki-84 the Hayate, which translates as "Hurricane."

"Frank" is a nickname created by the Allied forces.

Wotan · « **Reply #41 on:** August 08, 2004, 02:10:22 AM »

Quote

100/130 octane avgas.

From what I have read 100 octane was used to simulate water/methanol.

Like Germna planes the ki-84 used water/methanol injection to run at higher boost. Water was injected into the eye of the SC and evaporated cooling the charge. This increased the temp / pressure at which the 87 octane would detonate.

Higher octane fuel detonates at a higher temp / pressure and should allow for a higher boost. But high Octane fuel run in an eng with a low compression ratio would not burn as clean and you would end up with a dirty intake and not much of a performance boost. Eng wear would be a problem as well because of the higher temp.

If the Ki-84 is without water/methanol then MAP limits for 87 octane will indeed mean a much slower plane then one with 100 octane or one with 87 + water / methanol. It wouldn't make sense that the US would have tested the Ki-84 with higher MAP settings then were used by the Japanese with 87 + water.

However I have not seen any records from the US flight tests that shows the MAP settings.

I am not saying the Ki-84 in AH should do 420. I could careless.

One thing we should note though is Japanese avgas was being produced from all sorts of things and in that sense even it 87 octane fuel was probably not that good later in the war.

I only point this out because I don't want people to just point to 100 octane fuel as some sort of majic juice.

Kweassa · « **Reply #42 on:** August 08, 2004, 06:07:46 AM »

Quote

The Japanese call the Ki-84 the Hayate, which translates as "Hurricane."

'Hayate' in Japanese, 'Zui-feng' in Chinese, 'Jil-poong' in Korean. Kinda hard to translate exactly. Consisting of two letters meaning "running" and "wind" - literally "running winds".

Some translate it as 'gale', others into 'hurricane' but personally the nuiance is closer to a 'wild surge of wind' which doesn't accompany rain or thunder.

A 'sudden gust of wind' is probably more like it.

TBolt A-10 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 08, 2004, 01:33:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
'Hayate' in Japanese, 'Zui-feng' in Chinese, 'Jil-poong' in Korean. Kinda hard to translate exactly. Consisting of two letters meaning "running" and "wind" - literally "running winds".

Some translate it as 'gale', others into 'hurricane' but personally the nuiance is closer to a 'wild surge of wind' which doesn't accompany rain or thunder.

A 'sudden gust of wind' is probably more like it.

Cool! I didn't know that til now. Thanks.

Mitsu · « **Reply #44 on:** August 08, 2004, 05:13:20 PM »

HAYATE:
Generally translated as "gale" but the Japanese meaning also denotes a sudden, unwelcome, or ill-bringing wind. The nickname of the Type 4 Fighter (Ki-84), a.k.a. "Frank".