Author Topic: Aircraft Testing Criteria - Some Test Results (Read 4664 times)

Tac · « **Reply #45 on:** June 13, 2001, 06:01:00 PM »

heh, chogboy

*grin*

Jigster · « **Reply #46 on:** June 13, 2001, 06:19:00 PM »

There is a relation between the A6M5 and N1K2-J airfoils, as there is between the F6F and Fw190.

One of these pairs show some correlation in certain characteristics, one does not.

And no matter what is said the N1K2-J's flaps don't work in a historically correct way, in addition to being graphically rendered too small.

gijeff · « **Reply #47 on:** June 13, 2001, 10:07:00 PM »

Salute Gents,

Well Hooligan, whyncha ask Vati66 about my flying abilities. I don't proclaim to be an ace by any means, but I do know how airplanes are supposed to act. By the way, how much actual stick time do you have in real aircraft? I have some, certainly enough to give me a feel for what does and does not act like a real airplane. The FM for AH is one of the best if not THE best, but I still think there are a few tweaks to be made. I will continue to lobby for such as I see fit, and lemme end with......eat me!

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

flakbait · « **Reply #48 on:** June 14, 2001, 03:35:00 AM »

A quick test I did a while back showed the N1K only lost 50mph in a 180º blackout turn started from 300mph. This was without any external ord. Pyro has stated he thinks the wing might be generating too much lift. Now if anyone here has figures for the N1K2's wing geometry, post it. Take one up offline with full external ord attached and shoot up the drones like you would anyone else. Use sharp maneuvers to your heart's content. I did, and I found it handled better than most aircraft without bombs loaded. I'm going offline to film this phenomenon, and I'll post the film in the Aircraft board.

-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb

Graywolf · « **Reply #49 on:** June 14, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »

To get back to the topic of this thread for a moment

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo:
Oh, and heres the ALT they reached at point of stall. None of the aircraft "hung" there for any unreasonable amount of time, all departed flight.

G10 - 10,700
Yak9-U - 10,500
LA7 - 10,400
N1K2 - 9,700

Looking at the methodoligy of the testing there is a fundamental flaw. You were testing zoom climb from different speeds for different aircraft (their maximum). In a pure vertical climb the altitude gained will primary be a function of how much energy they had a start and how much extra energy is imparted during the climb by the engine (the planes are not manuvering and so are in a low drag state and compared to the other factors drag is not a major issue).

Because of this I'd expect the relative climb performance to be in line with the relative top speeds which would go.

109G10
LA7
Yak-9U (just a touch slower than the LA7)
N1K1

The only surpise in your tests is the Yak, but that could be due the dufferent pullup characteristics.

To do a fair test of zoom climb you should puul up all planes at the same airspeed. Also repeat all the test a number of times, throw out the highest and lowest values for each plane and average the rest.

lazs1 · « **Reply #50 on:** June 14, 2001, 08:59:00 AM »

sheesh... This gijeffie is a trainer? LOL... first we had a trainer that thinks (and loudly proclaims) that the "rope a dope" is "cheating" and now this moron with his less than 1/1 K/D ratio (what were you defending those fields with a c47?) talk about how if a nik killed him it must be cheating or a FM anomaly???

So what does HTC do for trainers? He certainly doesn't screen for emotionally stable ..

creamo posted some real results that he took the time and effort to test. This dipshit gijeffie goes into a rant that is emotional and totally devoid of any substance and then get's upset when someone tells him to prove it? He compounds that with veiled threats aginst someone he has never met? I bet he's a little sissy boy and even a 51 year old broke down bald, fat, guy with someone elses heart valve could squeak slap him into a crying jag much less hooligan who actually went through all the training..

Soo.... I say your a skilless liar prove me wrong. fly the nik for a tour and we will see just how "uber" it is in the hands of even a (choke) "trainer".

I don't like the nik and don't fly it but am about sick of all these dipshits that say how it is so uber and wrong and when you look... they do worth crap in the plane they are saying is such a dweeb ride.

Maybe there is something off with the nik. If there is I bet it is something small. I think that in any case it is still best to test instead of making a bunch of hysterical, unfounded and unproven anecdotal claims.
lazs

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: lazs1 ]

Creamo · « **Reply #51 on:** June 14, 2001, 09:55:00 AM »

Thanks for the links Wells, and Verm. I will take time this weekend to look into those.

Falkbait said - A quick test I did a while back showed the N1K only lost 50mph in a 180º blackout turn started from 300mph. This was without any external ord. Pyro has stated he thinks the wing might be generating too much lift.

Although this is the type of abnormal fm characteristics I would suspect may show some error, I had a tough time testing it. That's the type of stuff Im looking for. In fact, just like the Spit which always kills me, the Niki looks very similiar in this regard. I've never seen proof one way or the other though.

Graywolf, regarding my climb tests. I started the G10 at 300kts indicated because it did go so much faster, and all the aircraft within 25kts of that which are their top speeds. I think the Niki was the slowest straight and level at 275kts indicated- Beings that they are so close, the Energy of the fighters was very close as well. Now certainly it's like you said not a completely accurate test, but it dispelles any super ufo capabilities of the Niki, period.

And whomever gijeffie is, knock off the trainer roll troll, nobody buys it. You make threats against people like your going to physically hurt them if they " where you can reach them"?(that's criminal tardboy) spout off about your job(noone cares), flying skills(speak for themselves), and how your a all important AH trainer. Please stop clogging the thread. You aint giving anyone a "blanket party", just a headache.

Well good points, just waiting for the films. I'll try to get some myself.

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

xHaMmeRx · « **Reply #52 on:** June 14, 2001, 11:11:00 AM »

Creamo,

I've posted a link in the Planes and Vehicle category to some plane test procedures I've started using to test some planes. I am ultimately going to post my data. Sounds like we should team up to combine some results and eliminate some redundancy.

On the climb test...I simply dove all planes and started the climb when they got down to 400. That way all planes started in similar E-states. I also set fuel use to 0 (well, .001) had all planes with around 25 minutes duration fuel so they would be in similar fuel states. I won't post the link here so that (hopefully) any comments will go to the planes and vehicle thread

Sample Data Thread in Planes and Vehicles

HaMmeR

gijeff · « **Reply #53 on:** June 14, 2001, 04:40:00 PM »

Salute Gents,

Gee Lazs1, you must have a reading comprehension problem, ...or you didn't bother to read my first post. In my first post I stated that I had observed some strange behavior in the nik and gave a recent example. Only after being called a liar, and incompetent in the same sentence did I respond with a scathing remark, which I found to be quite appropriate under the circumstances. What a surprise to find yet another troll trying to get a rise out of me, YAWN. Go kick your cat if that makes you feel more manly because obviously wit isn't your forte.

Creamo, I was making a joke (albeit a rather forceful one) when I told the troll he was lucky he didn't call me a liar where I could reach him. Though I am not certain I wouldn't have given him an object lesson in not saying things just to piss off others had he been within reach. I don't really care if you think me qualified to train in the TA. Fortunately it ain't your call

Oh, and one more thing, both of you can.....eat me!

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: gijeff ]

Creamo · « **Reply #54 on:** June 14, 2001, 05:44:00 PM »

Wow, if I can do duplicate testing to help verify your tests XHammer, I certainly will give it a shot. It would halve the workload, and provide some measure of redundancy for testing accuracy, yes. Thank you.

Are you still talking about being a trainer giJiff? Got to abmit your persistant, if adding nothing to the topic.

---

[ 06-14-2001: Message edited by: Creamo ]

lazs1 · « **Reply #55 on:** June 15, 2001, 08:55:00 AM »

gijeffie... it appears that you are the one with a "reading comprehension problem". I can find nowhere that hooligan called you a liar. I called you a liar tho. I think that you are either skilless or a liar. I think your phony tough guy act is less than funny.

say, wasn't the last tough man competiton won by a network installer? No?

trainer... sheesh.. what a dipshit. You gonna teach people how to be vulched or how to lower their K/D ratio? Well, If you can tear yourself away from those duties, go ahead tough guy, fly a tour in the nik and show us how uber it is.

You got nothing. all your "proof" is a result of either your lack of skill or your lack of awarness about what was happening or.... A lie.

maybe something is wrong with the nik in some small way but... nothing that would explain the things gijeffie is talking about tho. I'm about sick of it. Creamo and others post data and then the same ol dipshits bring up their unsubstanciated fantasy stories every time. Just like with the CHog. Truth is... these guys can't fly the planes they squeak about worth a damn. And that's the real "problem" with those planes.
lazs

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #56 on:** June 15, 2001, 09:04:00 AM »

The F4U-1C was just the beginning...
-SW

gijeff · « **Reply #57 on:** June 15, 2001, 10:42:00 AM »

Salute Gents,

Gee lazs1 I look at your stats and....wow they are no better than mine, in fact your overall score is in the 1300 range, hmmm, and I can't fly? My overall score is in the top 200. When you get there, then you can talk to me. Till then save the hot air, you are gonna need it to hold that chute up. Obviously anyone that has experiences different from your own MUST be lying, or if they disagree with you, they must be an amazinhunk? Hmmm. Of course any network consultant must wear a pocket protector. Yup, I must be a 55 year old, pasty skinned, pocket protector and horn rimmed glasses wearing nerd, that's me. On the other hand I might be a 34 year old Ex-Tanker from a combat MOS who doesn't take toejam from kiddies who think typing something ignorant and unkind is fun. Like I said, kick your cat/dog if that makes you feel like a man, you ain't got much going for ya in the prose department. Stereotyping is stupid and if you are too young or stupid to realize that, then nothing I can say will wake you up. Oh and ......Eat Me!

Jeff Waite
aka GIJeff

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #58 on:** June 15, 2001, 11:05:00 AM »

My fighter score is in the top 20...

Oh wait.. you mean we aren't comparing who's biggest?

Nevermind..
-SW

Nifty · « **Reply #59 on:** June 15, 2001, 02:31:00 PM »

Was there a real thread around here? I got lost in all the macho, testosterone roadkill.

Rankings don't mean -too- much. A lot of factors go into K/D, mainly play style. If you're conservative and only attack if you have the advantage, you'll have a better K/D than the guy that doesn't care if he dies or not. You guys wanna trash talk as to who's better??? Go to the dueling arena and find out! Take up the same ride, same loadout, go cold merge at some altitude and have at it. Oh, and film it so we can all see.

Til all you're doing is just blowing sunshine up yer own ass!

BTW, I've only seen one niki pull something where I said "WOW!" it was like he just immediately reversed, but it took him a lil' bit to recover the E he blew, and as he fixated on me, someone came up behind him and sent him to the ground. Niki is only really dangerous in the hands of a good pilot (or if I'm sitting in a GV or PT boat with 2 or 3 of them around. I think 4 of my niki deaths came in one night when I went crazy in the PT boat! Died 6 times in maybe 10 minutes. Only took out 1 niki and 1 p47.)