Slot `43 recommendation

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Edbert MOL
Wasn't the Tony a product of cooperation with Willy Messerschmidt? Much of the airframe was based on the 109 according to my admittetdly failing memory.

No, it was not.  When we first encountered it pilots ID'd it as a Me109, but in fact the only simularity is the license built Daimler Benz 601.

From an Internet site on the Ki-61:
* The confusion of the Ki-61 with German and Italian fighters had some basis in the aircraft's origins. Between 1923 and 1933, Kawasaki Aircraft Engineering Company's head designer was a German named Dr. Richard Vogt, who returned to Germany in 1933 to take a similar position at the firm of Blohm und Voss during the war. Not surprisingly, Kawasaki continued to be strongly influenced by Dr. Vogt's beliefs after he left, particularly a faith in the usefulness of liquid-cooled inline engines. This made Kawasaki something of a heretic among Japanese aircraft manufacturers, who preferred air-cooled radials.

In March 1938, Kawasaki signed an agreement with Daimler-Benz of Germany for manufacturing rights to the liquid-cooled inline engines then under development by the German firm. In April 1940, a Kawasaki engineering team visited Daimler-Benz in Stuttgart to obtain plans and samples of the DB-601A engine, then being used in the Me-109.

The Kawasaki engine team managed to increase the take-off power of their version of the engine to 875 kW (1,175 HP) and reduce its weight slightly. The engine was put into production in November 1941. It was designated the "Ha-40", or "Army Type 2", though it would be later redesignated the "Ha-60" in a combined Army/Navy nomenclature.

In the meantime, certain officers at the Air Headquarters of the Imperial Japanese Army were very interested in the new fighters powered by liquid-cooled being developed in Britain, the USA, the USSR, Germany, and France. The Japanese Army also had unpleasant experiences in air combat against the Soviet Polikarpov I-16 fighter during the beating the Imperial Army took in their Manchurian border clash with the USSR in the summer of 1939. This experience suggested the the single-minded focus on agility above all that characterized Japanese fighter design doctrine might need to yield to a focus on speed and improved armor protection and firepower.

* In February 1940, the Army initiated work with Kawasaki on two single-seat fighters based on the DB-601 derivative engine: a heavy interceptor, designated the "Ki-60", and a general-purpose fighter, designated the "Ki-61". Kawasaki decided to build the Ki-60 first, and the design team, under Kawasaki chief designer Takeo Doi and his deputy Shin Owada, constructed three prototypes of the interceptor in 1941.

[soda72]

Arlo

I have the demo ready.
I set it up with the data you posted here and I also used some of the data storch posted as well..

I'll send u the URL if I see you in the CT....

[Krusty]

Uhh... the Ki45 was a recon plane for the beginning of its life. It started with 2x 7.xmm guns, and when it was upgraded later with the big gun, one of the 7.xmm was removed. My source states that the upward firing tuns are 12.7mm, NOT cannon. Relatively FEW ever got the forward cannon.

These planes were ineffective everywhere, and were NO threat at all until they were used for kamikaze attacks, and then their only threat was non-fighter-performance related. The cannon-armed variant was a night fighter against B-29s, intercepting bomb raids at night and running kamikaze attacks during the day. This plane has NO role in the current setup, in my opinion.

By subbing the 110C with 2x 20mm and 4x 7.xmm, I think there is a BIG difference than a single big-bore gun with limited ammo and a bank of 6 standard normal powered guns with thousands of rounds of ammo. Not much of a comparison, if you ask me. 110c blows the ki45 out of the water in any situation, unless the ki45 is a kamikaze and the 110 is behind it (then it might outrun it, just barely).

Bad matchup in my mind. Not in any way similar, considering roles, performances, firepower, and capabilities.

Leave the 110c out.

[storch]

Originally posted by Krusty
Uhh... the Ki45 was a recon plane for the beginning of its life. It started with 2x 7.xmm guns, and when it was upgraded later with the big gun, one of the 7.xmm was removed. My source states that the upward firing tuns are 12.7mm, NOT cannon. Relatively FEW ever got the forward cannon.

These planes were ineffective everywhere, and were NO threat at all until they were used for kamikaze attacks, and then their only threat was non-fighter-performance related. The cannon-armed variant was a night fighter against B-29s, intercepting bomb raids at night and running kamikaze attacks during the day. This plane has NO role in the current setup, in my opinion.

By subbing the 110C with 2x 20mm and 4x 7.xmm, I think there is a BIG difference than a single big-bore gun with limited ammo and a bank of 6 standard normal powered guns with thousands of rounds of ammo. Not much of a comparison, if you ask me. 110c blows the ki45 out of the water in any situation, unless the ki45 is a kamikaze and the 110 is behind it (then it might outrun it, just barely).

Bad matchup in my mind. Not in any way similar, considering roles, performances, firepower, and capabilities.

Leave the 110c out.

Do your sources provide you with your crack also?

[Krusty]

Bill Gunston, noted aviation author, in "German, Italian, and Japanese Fighters of World War II"

He has done many books, throughout many years, and I feel that his info is relatively solid.

[storch]

Originally posted by Krusty
Bill Gunston, noted aviation author, in "German, Italian, and Japanese Fighters of World War II"

He has done many books, throughout many years, and I feel that his info is relatively solid.

Enzo Angelucci claims somewhat different armament packages in the Rand McNally Encyclopaedia of Military Aircraft.  Actually all Japanese Aircraft were armed in a plethora of combinations.  Try reading some AARs of furballs involving the Nick to see what the guys opposing thought of them.  The Ki-45 should be represented.

[Odee]

Originally posted by Karnak
Yeah, I agree that the physiolgical modeling of sitting in a flaming aircraft are not modeled....

Why do flaming A6Ms last so long and flaming Mossies so short?  Why do Mossies catch fire so much easier?

Hmm... Mayhap the Zero/Mossie thing is....

Zeke = Aluminium frame/skin

Mossie = Wood/Fabric/very little aluminium in frame/skin

???

Storch:  Ya slay me man....  and I ain't in game yet! FOCLMGBO!

[VWE]

What are the fighter vs fighter stats for this round so far?

[CurtissP-6EHawk]

Typical Furball Stats


A6M5b has 501 Kills of F6F-5
F6F-5 has 610 Kills of A6M5b

A6M5b has 123 Kills of F4U-1D
F4U-1D has 143 Kills of A6M5b

A6M5b has 203 Kills of F4U-1
F4U-1 has 259 Kills of A6M5b

N1K2 has 6 Kills of F4U-1
F4U-1 has 5 Kills of N1K2

N1K2 has 8 Kills of F4U-1D
F4U-1D has 7 Kills of N1K2

N1K2 has 11 Kills of F6F-5
F6F-5 has 11 Kills of N1K2

[VWE]

How about A6m5b vs Peeeee38

And Ki-61 vs F4u-1 and Peeeee38?

[Grits]

The Niki and Peeeee38 have only been in the set for a day, its too soon to tell.

The Ki-61 has 67 kills and has been killed 51 times against the F4U-1

[VWE]

The Niki and Peeeee38 have only been in the set for a day, its too soon to tell.

Gee, I didn't know the A6M5b was know as the Niki... good thing your not teaching the youth of America Grits!

[storch]

I found out last night that I suck in the N1K2.  I have to relearn that ride now :/

[Grits]

Read it again, I said:

"The Niki and Peeeee38 have only been in the set for a day, its too soon to tell. "

Hence, comparisons with those planes against any other, not just between those two, probably dont have the minimum number of sorties to get any meaningful data from.

[Dennis]

Originally posted by Grits
Read it again, I said:

"The Niki and Peeeee38 have only been in the set for a day, its too soon to tell. "

Hence, comparisons with those planes against any other, not just between those two, probably dont have the minimum number of sorties to get any meaningful data from.

ummmm...
The N1K is included in Hawk's list..


Anyway, I know the A6M2 (read 'two') has at least two kills against the Peeee38.  

Splash1