PRICEY ????

[tweedy]

I come from AW3 FR where I currently pay $10 a month to fly.  While I certainly feel I get my monies worth, I also never feel I "have to fly" or "put my time in" to get my monies worth.  In the few times I've flown AH I can say I would switch from AW3.  The graphics are better and the realism of actually piloting the aircraft is definately better.  For these reasons I would switch.

However, If the price remains at $30 I don't think I would switch.  I've heard some arguments about Warbirds pilots paying by the hour and spending on average $300 a month thus making AH a bargain.  I have never flown Warbirds so I can't rate how it flys as a sim.  I also hear guys saying how EZ it would be to "give up" something like a night out in order to afford the $30 fee.  Well, if there's one thing I've learned, that is NEVER "give up" anything.

I gladly pay KESMAI the $10 monthly fee knowing full well that there will be months when I don't get to fly.  I simply don't have the time to "live on the sim" like I see many of you do. (If  I could I would !!)

My first night on AH I thought $15 would be a fee I'd gladly pay.  After hearing a few comments online I guess I could come around to paying $20/month.  AH is, if all its promises come true, worth $15 and maybe $20.  I'm hoping HITECH is/will consider fee structures, reduced flat fees or wahtever else would fit.  I would think more pilots would come over to AH from AW3 without having the sticker shock.

At any rate, that's what I think, so that's what I said.  

[Yeager]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the subject.

As I have predicted, this conversation will get considerably more dicussed, recussed and of course, cussed, as the moment to stop grinnin and drop linen draws ever nearer.

Some will go, many more will stay and yet even more will wonder what all the fuss is about and give it a try.

I have no doubt that what we have now is worth the *reletively* cheap price and as things develope further it will be an even better bargain.

Yeager

[wells]

I think they are being smart by trying a pay system that hasn't been tried before to start off.  If it doesn't work, they will change it.

[CptTrips]

The problem is that comparisons have no meaning.

Its like saying:

I've been driving a Yugo for 3 years now.  I've tried your Poche 911 and really like it.  But I think you price is way too high compared to my Yugo.  I know many other Yugo drivers that would switch if you sell your 911 at the same price.  In any case,  thanks for the test drive.

In the end, no matter how you slice it, you get the sim you pay for.


Regards,
Wab

[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]

[Rocket]

I have avoided major discussion on this so far but I feel that since the thread is here I will post my feelings. These are just my ramblings and I am sure that I will be flamed for it but at least I can get it off my chest.

Do I like the game:  Yes very much so.  It is cutting edge, fun to play, and the community is awesome already.

Is the price worth it:  This is the biggie.
I think it is all where you come from.  Warbird flyers think it is great to have to pay 1 flat fee instead of near 500+ a month to play.  Which is fine if you make good money or have a generous mom or dad.  Some of us don't fit into that area and how we spend what free money we have is a challange.
Wal-mart is run on the philosophy that cheaper brings more customers, more customers brings more profit.  
The arguement I see here from that is that a lower price brings in the "quakers".  Sure you will get drive-by "gamer" but most will be turned away by the realism of the flight models.  Most of those that do stay will become good members of the community.  Others that stay will become thorns in the communities side, but there are those that will pay and still be pains.  The best way to expand the Flight Sim world at this level of realism is to help mold new pilots with good habits.  This community will excel at this I am sure.  
What price boils down to is cost of development, server cost, maintanance cost, and level of profit.  The more ppl that play the better the profit as long as enough play to cover the expenses each month.  HTC has decided what to charge and I am sure all the whining and squeaking won't change that but I firmly believe that by a lower price and higher numbers of flyers that the game can grow faster.  I see avg of 100 ppl in the game most of the time.  Early morning maybe 30 though.  These numbers will drop once it goes pay and will take some time to recover them.  With the numbers we have a HA would be feasible and the "extra" scenerios could add to the profits.


Just is just some ramblings and a little long winded. I am undecided at this time if I will continue when it goes pay, I have to see if my budget can afford it.  I know that the wife and daughter is looking forward to me spending some more time with them  
If I can find the extra cash I would love to stay and fight and maybe I will a couple of months out of the year, medic school allowing.

S!

Flame away I put on my bunker gear    

Rocket

------------------
The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de

[tweedy]

Well AW3 and I'm sure Warbirds are NOT YUGO's.  As for AH, well it's not even in production yet but has great preliminary promises.  Comparisons will prevail.  Pilots from Warbirds will be elated at teh reduction.  Those from AW3 (and others) will be hanging on the fence.  When I first joined AW3, I compared the $10 monthly fee to the $20 bucks a month I used to pay at Video arcades in the late 70's early 80's.(yeah I'm in my upper 30's). I can afford the $30 but the big *if* is will I have the time to spare to $spend$ my $30 worth.

P.S.   GASP !!!  Warbird pilots paid upwards of $500 /month !!!!  Man I could get REAL flight experience in a WW2 trainer for $199 per half hour session !!!

 

Originally posted by AKWabbit:
The problem is that comparisons have no meaning.

Its like saying:

I've been driving a Yugo for 3 years now.  I've tried your Poche 911 and really like it.  But I think you price is way too high compared to my Yugo.  I know many other Yugo drivers that would switch if you sell your 911 at the same price.  In any case,  thanks for the test drive.

In the end, no matter how you slice it, you get the sim you pay for.


Regards,
Wab

[This message has been edited by AKWabbit (edited 01-18-2000).]

[Micke]

For my own part the game has to be more complete before im gonna pay for it.

/Mike

[This message has been edited by Micke (edited 01-18-2000).]

[Maniac]

I´m not that sure anymore, Pyro answered an question about multiple arenas in another thread.

The question was if AH will have an "Historical Arena" (No icons, correct matchups etc) and the answer to this was no "not on an regular basis".

I dont know the reasons for this, one can only speculate, it could be that HTC is going mainstream and targetting the "masses" with the quake style arena or it could djust be that they dont have another server to run the HA on.

Anyway i think i will wait untill there is an HA up 24/7 or untill the strat model is completed. Ive been furballing in the quake arenas for to many years now and i need something new to keep me interested.

// -nr-1-

[Heater]

All,

I try not to get involved in threads like this, but I have seen the “PRICE” thread 20 or 30 times on the board in one form or another and said nothing, Till now I will add my simplistic way of thinking to it.

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE PRICE THEN VERY SIMPLY DO NOT PAY IT,
AND QUIT squeakIN ABOUT IT !!


Just my two cents worth  


------------------
!!! Heater !!!
Shit Happens All The Time

If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."

[SC-Sp00k]

Ok. I wasnt going to either and ive been good with other threads but i feel like being bad.

Usually only the wife see's this side  

$30.00.US is big dollars to the "Out country" layman pilot.  The arguement is that the programmers or Sim Creators cannot amend prices for every single country outside their borders.  I agree.

Nevertheless. Its a fact and one HTC will have to contend with.

WB pilots may flock in droves on price alone. I can understand that. AW pilots may also flock due to the programming of AH alone. I can understand that .

My arguement will be that the Flight Sim community is at best a small one. And small it is. Apart from HTC and a few others, smaller companies are gobbled up by the big names as Hasbro, Sierra etc.

Big companies means profit based programming to which the "Quaker" type games dominate in numbers and profit margin.

Games like Falcon 4, EAW, RB3 all go into the crap pile tho their potential was enormous for us who paid and flew them.

Being the beast that the Combat Flight Sim pilot is.  Pilots of similar disposition flock in Squadrons and form circles of friends which gather in 1-3 sims on an average basis.  The majority of pilots are considered in which Sim would support them all the best. Hence AW's popularity with the $10.00 flat rate.

AH with a flat rate is the right move. I wish more would follow and we could be given something close to what we have in front of us with AH.  But profit beats the pilot.

HTC obviously love their sim and care about the community (customer base that fly it).
Its easy to see with the way they communicate to us even when fed up online and just want to fly. Its also smart business.

The arguement re pilot quantity re quality has more merit in my opinion on the quantity side. As stated above. There are only a select number in the Flight Sim community who want full realism. The others want the gamey fun sim. We demand something extra and fortunately have it.  But theres also others afraid to try. Others who would put their hard earnt dollars in the HTC bank account if the price was right.

If the $30.00.US  ($45-50.00AUS) was reduced to $10.00US. AH would then attract without doubt numbers from all over the world. Increased customer base. Increased stability, better promotion in the small but talkative Flight Sim community and it would drag in the AW, WB, EAW, Janes, MSCFS, FC, BoB etc etc crowd as nothing around it would be able to compete or come close.

No more international whining and a game that could only ever get bigger and better.

$30.00 US will restrict pilots in the majority to the US and to those outside with large bank accounts. That would be a shame. I can think of 30+ pilots right now now flying who would for the right price.

To say, as has been stated,

IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE PRICE THEN VERY SIMPLY DO NOT PAY IT, AND QUIT squeakIN ABOUT IT !![/b}

is about as useful as tits on a bull. Its not helpful to the sim or to the pilots who fly or wish to fly it.
The fact is that price will be an issue and an important one. We arent all lawyers, dentists and plumbers tho many of us work a damn sight harder for our dollar and whilst willing to part with it. Will do so generally for the best price.

I dont profess to know game costs etc and fiscal responsibilities re the making of a Sim. I understand the price is high and may be the motivation behind $30.US.

The arguement re International Monetary concerns is time honoured and one which has hit every Sim Ive flown in where you pay to play. Ive seen one sim company correct its inital stance on player costs due to the reaction recieved by the customer base and other reasons. Its saved the sim. At least for the time being. Im not saying the same is applicable with AH. Its a different market and a different product. Simply that we the more numerous section of the community outside US borders should be heard and our merits judged on sound fiscal basis. Ive no doubt HTC will do that. All we can do is offer our reasons re payment plans for the benefit of the Sim and us  

HTC comes from the WB and AW enviroment as I understand it and are not ignorant of the customer base that lies outside that sphere.
All I say is its worth discussing and worth their consideration.

The world awaits.

   


------------------
SC-Sp00k
Sqn Ldr
SSC http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm
**Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.**
Skeleton Crew


[This message has been edited by SC-Sp00k (edited 01-18-2000).]

[Maniac]

For those of you who dont think that the price is "set in stone" yet, you all better get ready for an dissapointment.

The same words that used to djustify the WB $2 an hour leech rate has been used by HT in AH : "If it aint worth 30$ for u then dont play" This is the same answer we all got some 3-4 years ago when arguing up and down about WB´s price scheme (except the amount that we argued about was different hehe).

The _only_ way the price is gonna change is if WB stuns the market with lets say an 20$ flat rate fee, or if Playnet releases their beta of WWIIOL.

Regards.

// -nr-1-

P.S For the record i still think 30$ is an splendid price (if you like Main arena quake style play that is)

[Straffo_EAF329]

S! All

As I'm a poor European  who have to pay : the phone bill (even for local call) , the ISP and finaly AH I've just do a little calcul (<>Compute?)...

If I subscribe to AH it would cost me about 1.5 box of EAW per month ! (provided that I would be able to not be online more than 20 hour/month and just playing AH)
To be quite alone online because of TimeZone différences ...

ARGG    

[Micke]

We all have to pay phonebills and ISP fare's.
A for 30$/month its ok for me, i spend lots more on junk/month.

So if i wanna pay AH ill just cut 50$ bucks of junk worth  

/Mike

[org]

 

Originally posted by tweedy:
I come from AW3 FR where I currently pay $10 a month to fly.  While I certainly feel I get my monies worth, I also never feel I "have to fly" or "put my time in" to get my monies worth.  In the few times I've flown AH I can say I would switch from AW3.  The graphics are better and the realism of actually piloting the aircraft is definately better.  For these reasons I would switch.

However, If the price remains at $30 I don't think I would switch.  I've heard some arguments about Warbirds pilots paying by the hour and spending on average $300 a month thus making AH a bargain.  I have never flown Warbirds so I can't rate how it flys as a sim.  I also hear guys saying how EZ it would be to "give up" something like a night out in order to afford the $30 fee.  Well, if there's one thing I've learned, that is NEVER "give up" anything.

I gladly pay KESMAI the $10 monthly fee knowing full well that there will be months when I don't get to fly.  I simply don't have the time to "live on the sim" like I see many of you do. (If  I could I would !!)

My first night on AH I thought $15 would be a fee I'd gladly pay.  After hearing a few comments online I guess I could come around to paying $20/month.  AH is, if all its promises come true, worth $15 and maybe $20.  I'm hoping HITECH is/will consider fee structures, reduced flat fees or wahtever else would fit.  I would think more pilots would come over to AH from AW3 without having the sticker shock.

At any rate, that's what I think, so that's what I said.  

Agree.  I have had a WB account since it came out of beta.  AH is superior in many ways, and I don't doubt it will keep developing.  However, I have many months that I don't fly over a couple of hours.  It doesn't make sense to me to spend $30 every month, fly or not, however good the sim is.  $20...yeah.

org

[Westy]

 I can never resist adding my two centavos to these threads.
 AW3, at $9.95, is, er *was*, worth the price.  FA II beats AW3 now at the same price. and that's not a compliment either  .
 For me WB's was too expensive, although I did look longingly at all the features it has had for a few years that AW3 does not have...still.
 It's a *very* long list of PRO's for AH in comparison to the Con's. The only Con that comes to mind is trim. I've handled that feature well enough that but it's still in my mind a 'gimmick'
 I'll leave FM out of it altogther as I've never flown a real WWII aircraft and neither have 99% of the people here. Needless to say all a computer can do is strive to be replicate what the real thing was like. I enjoy *flying* in AW3 almost as much as AH.
 AH graphics are superior, all around. AH does not have a SAC utility like AW3 but that was a player built add on not from Kesmai. Let's see how AH develops ...
 Rolling terrain? AW3 does not have it.
 Damage model. Well red screen is all AW3 has. Or the reamdomizer (sp intentional).
 Not like the superb battle damage one can see or incur here.
 Guns and load out. AH has it. It's the balls.
 AW3 has that magical "one second burst" of all guns till the percentage of heavy guage rounds (not modelled really) runs out and then damage capability deteriorates. No choice in guns, weaps, bombs
.... argh.  I could go on for about two pages about what AH has that AW does not.

 THE NUMBER ONE REASON (and there are ALOT) I'LL BE DISHING OUT $30/mo IS

   NO RELAXED REALISM GOOBERS!!!!

 -Westy