New Rash of Dweebery

[mars01]

Why it when a team, or opposing team pilots don't fly the way YOU want them to it is a problem?

Ummm No one Said this.  Nice try tho.

If someone wants to bypass airborne cons to vultch, isn't that his/her prerogative?

Yes, I'm sure this game and the community can benfit from people climbing to 15k diving to a runway and dieing.  I guess your one vote for this is an ok way to fly.

If someone wants to exclusively fly spits or la7's, why is this a problem? Are you having a hard time killing them in a 190-d9? Doesn't it make sense to use the most effective tool/tactic for the job?

This has nothing to do with this thread.  This thread is not about what people fly (RIF)

Seriously, some people need to quit trying to arm-chair general the game and just get on with it. You know the game, you know what can and can't be done.

I think the real issues in the game have more to do with things like net lag, unbalanced team numbers and the like. But for crying out loud, quit whining when an la7 shoots you down in your 190 or p-51.

If you want to master the 190, fine, be my guest, but don't expect to be able to fly it like an la7 or a spit. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

Are you sure your posting in the right thread.  This thread is about people bypassing con for which they have an advantage and most times a 1 on 1 fight to dive into inevitable suicide to make some weak vulch passes and die.

This thread has nothing to do with what plane they are flying.

[jamusta]

No I didnt RTR.

But to add to a solution to the noobs, the only solution is time. Sooner or later they will develop enough skill to correct this themselves. There is nothing we can do as a community unless they seek our help. As for the pilots who have been around awhile that still do this, well you have to want to learn. Now if you just so happen to get a noob in your squad then you can help them. I tell noobs in my squad to never dive below the highest enemy.

[Stang]

Well said Mars... exactly right, this thread is all about guys who would rather bypass a 1 on 1 or a couple cons that are actually in the air, that are a threat, instead to vulch quickly and die.  It really sucks for gameplay, as has been discussed above.

[Hammy]

if i recall, yesterday Bob49 did exactly that to me as i was landing at a9.

For zazens benefit, Bob49 is a rook

[Kev367th]

This is definately not just a Bish problem.
Lost count of the number of Rook/Knit P51s,La7s,190s etc that come in at 20k+ and you know whats coming next. Yup they scream in go right down the runway spraying and keep going. Have taken to sitting far side of runway at about 10k in a Tiffy to try and catch them.
In fact few nights ago in a Hurri 2c at 17k or so saw 5 Rook P51s a few k below a few miles from our base. So I dove on them, they all nosed down straight into the field. Not picking on Rooks just using something that stuck in my mind as an example, as I said it is not country specific.

[Stang]

Yup, they don't dive to get away, they dive to vulch, and then die seconds after.  Why not stay up and have a good fight before dying?

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Stang
Yup, they don't dive to get away, they dive to vulch, and then die seconds after.  Why not stay up and have a good fight before dying?

Somebody already said it, but I will repeat the best I can ...

It is probably much easier for one to accept death by augering and at their own hand, than to accept death at the hand of someone else.

Timid ... wu$$y ... chicken-chit ... scaredy-cat ... it has a million faces.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by RTR


the only way to stop this type of "dweebery" is by education. We gotta teach the noobs the finer points, or at least extend the hand and make the offer.

cheers,
RTR

You are correct.  Proper training will help cut down on this tactic but it won't eliminate it.  What AH needs is a formal training program, very much like the ones AW and WB had.  These were very successful and widely used by new players which all resulted in better game play.  AW and WB has proven that a formal training program does work and is beneficial to the players, new and old, as well as the game.

I'd even go a step further and add a newbie arena for new players only, similiar to the one AW had.  The AW n00b arena helped the new players cut their teeth without having to be fodder in the main arenas.   There were safe guards in place to prevent veteran players to use the n00b arena as their personal seal pup bashing place.  Again, this is another successfully tested option that can only help the players and the community.


Oh yea...and get rid of auto-flaps!


ack-ack

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DipStick
Well if veterans are indeed doing this crap then this game is going down hill fast. If this is the "Great strategy" that is part of 'winning' the war' - I'm glad I have no part in it. The game needs a serious revamping as to strategic targets and other gameplay issues.

Usually the veteran players that do this are the same ones that did it as n00bs.  Don't hate them, for they know not better...feel pity for them for they should know better.



ack-ack

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by DipStick
No you're both wrong and have no idea what we are talking about here. We are trying to identify and HELP these guys learn to fight. Not figure out how to shoot them down. That's easy.

Actually I do know what I am talking about.
Employing the methods that I mentioned would very soon teach this type of pilot that his tactic isn’t fool proof. And after he has exhausted yet another so called dweeby tactic. He might consider taking tips from someone as your self.
DipStick. Your willingness to help or teach new players admirable.
Anyone that knows me on a more personal basis in the game know above all else. I am a teacher at heart. If I know how, when or what…just ask and I will share it with you.
Actually i go out of my way very often to teach a new skill or a new finding. Be it ACM...or Game features.
But you certainly do not think you are speaking for everyone on this thread?
I mean seriously…reading it carefully it is easy to pick out the Helpers from the ones that just want the. Fight and perhapes take the kill.
Lets take a good look.

Originally posted by SlapShot
Mugzee ... no offense bud, but I am so tired of hearing this answer.

I like the Spit V ... so I will take my Spit V to 15-20K and use my real Air Patrol Skills and look for incoming.

Ah ... I see a dot co-alt, so I fly towards it ... get an icon at 6K out ... it's a P-51.

I continue to close and stalk the P-51, getting closer.

Now I am getting real close, so I start to make my move to engage.

Whoa ... whats this ?!?!? He puts his nose down to gain speed and then comes right at me with guns a'blazin' so I manouver to avoid the HO.

I look out the back and what has he done ... continued his nose down attitude and is now approaching 500mph.

Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.

That worked great !!!

That should suffice.

Slapshot…No offense.
But what in do know is that you need to fly a High-speed interceptor to ease you frustration of such occurrences.
The P51D, FW190 D-9, and such.

Have you ever thought that doing so would eventually prove the those Sky Screamers that their tactics wont work? And the end result would be that the so-called Dweebs would realize that they must learn fight their way to the target. In turn they would eventually realize that fighting is much more fun than they realized.
Again...no offense intended.

PS: If we want to train them.
Why haven’t we started a thread offering our personal time and services to do just that?
Hey look. There’s a novel idea.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Mugzeee
Actually I do know what I am talking about.
Employing the methods that I mentioned would very soon teach this type of pilot that his tactic isn’t fool proof. And after he has exhausted yet another so called dweeby tactic. He might consider taking tips from someone as your self.
DipStick. Your willingness to help or teach new players admirable.
Anyone that knows me on a more personal basis in the game know above all else. I am a teacher at heart. If I know how, when or what…just ask and I will share it with you.
Actually i go out of my way very often to teach a new skill or a new finding. Be it ACM...or Game features.
But you certainly do not think you are speaking for everyone on this thread?
I mean seriously…reading it carefully it is easy to pick out the Helpers from the ones that just want the. Fight and perhapes take the kill.
Lets take a good look.



That should suffice.

Slapshot…No offense.
But what in do know is that you need to fly a High-speed interceptor to ease you frustration of such occurrences.
The P51D, FW190 D-9, and such.

Have you ever thought that doing so would eventually prove the those Sky Screamers that their tactics wont work? And the end result would be that the so-called Dweebs would realize that they must learn fight their way to the target. In turn they would eventually realize that fighting is much more fun than they realized.
Again...no offense intended.

PS: If we want to train them.
Why haven’t we started a thread offering our personal time and services to do just that?
Hey look. There’s a novel idea.

Cool ... now that we have the "no offense" thing squared away ... hehehe.

I did say ...

"Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.

Had I been in a 262, yes I would have caught him and only in a 262 in this scenario. This scenario is very typical.

Ya know what ... I really don't like flying the P-51, I would rather stick sharp pencils in my eyes then fly one of those LW planes ... just my preference in what I don't really like to fly.

As far as helping people ... I am up for it if someone asks and sometimes I offer help/advise to the enemy when I feel that they can use it.

[Mugzeee]

Originally posted by SlapShot
As far as helping people ... I am up for it if someone asks and sometimes I offer help/advise to the enemy when I feel that they can use it.

And i salute you for it!
Thanks

[RedTop]

Originally posted by SlapShot
Mugzee ... no offense bud, but I am so tired of hearing this answer.

I like the Spit V ... so I will take my Spit V to 15-20K and use my real Air Patrol Skills and look for incoming.

Ah ... I see a dot co-alt, so I fly towards it ... get an icon at 6K out ... it's a P-51.

I continue to close and stalk the P-51, gettting closer.

Now I am getting real close, so I start to make my move to engage.

Whoa ... whats this ?!?!? He puts his nose down to gain speed and then comes right at me with guns a'blazin' so I manouver to avoid the HO.

I look out the back and what has he done ... continued his nose down attitude and is now approaching 500mph.

Guess what ? ... there ain't no way in hell that I am going to catch this guy in my Spit V, and I would go as far as to say that even if I was in a P-51, I still would not catch this guy.

That worked great !!!

Slap you and I live in the same world seems.

ALTHOUGH.....I did have one of the best fights in a very long time today with a very good 51 flyer. BTcpr and I fought at ALT starting at 21k and never got below 14k. Was a wonderful fight that I enjoyed very Much. He is however 1 of very few that would do that. The rest dive away..6k..comback..dive away 6 k..comeback..Now Im outta gas..no fun.

[mars01]

Mugs I wish you were correct, I have shot so many of these guys down it drives me nuts!!

Climb for 5 mins in a spit V , why cause there are no cons to chase in the area.

So now it's just me climbing away my prettythang hanging out etc.  Then I see a dot.  Looks high enough.  keep climbing, dot definately has the alt advantage, hmm which to do level and gain speed try to get a little more alt and be slow.

Then all of a sudden is see the guy go into a steep dive, ok that was dumb, he just gave up alt advantage, cool.

I see he is going to dive under so I position to split S right on top of him...

If all goes well I am on his six an I will have a few seconds before he really starts pulling away.

If I don't the chase is on, is he heavy?  Maybe I'll get him before he drops.  Then I see him set up a vulch pass, speeding for the runway, think to myself hahaha no ones upping.  There is a fight behind you tho.  lol

Finally a few bad passes, since they don't have the patience to climb all the way out of danger, they give me an angle and blam he's dead.

Ok so I land a 4 kill sortie every one like above, climb back out, rinse, repeat etc.

To be honest I can get the same thing from the drones off line.  The drones are a little less predictable too lolh.  ZZZZZZZZ

If these guys would engage they might learn something about the planes, the game, some tactics and themselves.  To be honest I suck one or two turns and I'm a gonner, but instead they play target and die instead.

[phookat]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
You are correct.  Proper training will help cut down on this tactic but it won't eliminate it.

I really don't think it will help at all.  They can only learn if they're willing to learn.  And learning requires failure.

These folks know what they're doing.  This ain't rocket science.  They know that if they want to learn to fight they have to fight.  They choose not to, and their idea of fun is something else.

So be it, I say.  Live and let die.