Ted Sampley of Swift Boats sez....

[MrLars]

Originally posted by Ripsnort


Nice candidate you have there MrLars.

Gee, I just wonder where GWB was at that time? Do you have proof he wasn't buggering some transvestite in the back room of the 'Leather n' Chaps' bar in downtown Tijuana? I thought not.

Operations in Cambodia were illegal, but we went in anyway. Told NEVER to admit incursions and many times we didn't know when we crossed the border if at all.

Try to get any retired Generals or Admirals to admit we went into Cambodia and I bet you'll get many conflicting opinions, most of which will deny it happened except in just a few isolated instances.

Finaly, if this is the tact you want to take trying to dennegrate Mr. Kerrys service to this country then go for it! What you'll do is just keep his years of service to this country in Americans mind and the contrast to GWB's service will become clearer the more the right pounds on him.

Your Cod, GWB just said last night the JK served honorably and that scumbag O'Neil had to admit that JK's action running into the jungle was 'courageous'.

It would be best if the right focused on the issues that are important to this country instead of trying to smear a VN Vet, a tact that even has VN Vets pissed at JK's anti war actions pissed.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Neither.  Most of the military will take off their uniforms and walk away.  Some smaller groups may remain organized but if there is no civilian leadership anymore.....no more miltary.

Really?

All the thousands of tanks and planes and other weapons will just dissapear?

[Suave]

You would think the fact that he served only 4 months and still has all of his parts today would be enough to set off red lights in most peoples' heads.

Oh well, I'm sure that the guilt he feels about it is debilitating enough. Hopefully his billions of dollars can asuage the guilt. Maybe that's why he's all about giving back to the poor.  If he wasn't such a lucrative politician he'd be a mere a millionair by the time he dies at the rate that he gives to the world.

[myelo]

Hey Rip, did you read John Rasmussen's editorial in the Wall Street Journal Tuesday?

[Toad]

Well, it's just great that the only topic folks can find to discuss in this election is a 30+ year old war.

The political puppet masters must be pleased.

No one's talking about where this country goes if Bush continues for 4 more years. Where he will lead us, how his policies will effect our daily life, economy, health care, etc.

No one's talking about where one of (if not the most) liberal Senator will lead us, how his policies will effect our daily life, economy, health care, etc.

Oh no... we want to dissect yet again a misbegotten war that the politicians fubar'ed beyond all recovery.

WTG!

We're certainly getting the President we deserve, no matter who wins. Because we obviously don't derseve much.

[GRUNHERZ]

And thats why everyone should join me in not voting.

[Toad]

Wrong, Grun.

You need to vote.

It won't happen, but imagine the consternation and resultant change in BOTH political parties if a disgusted American electorate put a Libertarian in the Oval Office. And how much damage could a Libertarian do, considering the House and Senate would still be under the traditional control of the Dems and Reps.

Even a strong showing by a third party would probably give the two "tarditional" parties pause to think.

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by Toad


It won't happen.

Even a strong showing by a third party would probably give the two "tarditional" parties pause to think.

Yep wont happend.

Perot got 20% of the poular vote in 92. It changed nothing.

Take a long walk in the park, take a long lunch, stay home, be with your family, work a bit more, whatver, just stay away from the polls on election day..

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Then you should have a piping hot cup of STFU, and refrain from      b!+ch!ng about anything. Failing to vote is failing to take part in the system. If you don't make an effort to make the system work, then you don't have the grounds to b!+ch.

[Suave]

Voting would be simplified if it was made public knowledge what corporations the candidates work for.  Of course clarity and transpearancy would greatly complicate any political campaign.  The system is at a point now where simplification is considered counterproductive.

Does the popular vote even matter in every state ? I don't even know. Shows how long ago I stopped giving a damn.

[Toad]

I disagree. I think the both parties changed a bit in order to capture some of Perot's base.

You can be certain that if they see no threat, you'll get more of the same in 4 years.

Take a long walk in the park, take a long lunch, stay home, be with your family, work a bit more, whatver, just stay away from the polls on election day..

[/b]

I imagine there's a lot of guys that would like to take a long walk in the park, take a long lunch, stay home, be with their family, work a bit more, whatver. Unfortunately, they're in military cemeteries, places where they ended up while ensuring YOU would have the right to vote.

I believe folks that don't vote dishonor those that sacrificed all, from the American Revolution to the present.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Toad
I imagine there's a lot of guys that would like to take a long walk in the park, take a long lunch, stay home, be with their family, work a bit more, whatver. Unfortunately, they're in military cemeteries, places where they ended up while ensuring YOU would have the right to vote.

I believe folks that don't vote dishonor those that sacrificed all, from the American Revolution to the present.

HEAR! HEAR!


"Under each of those crosses and star of davids lies a young man who gave all of his tomorrows for your today."

[Charon]

Well, it's just great that the only topic folks can find to discuss in this election is a 30+ year old war.

The political puppet masters must be pleased.

No one's talking about where this country goes if Bush continues for 4 more years. Where he will lead us, how his policies will effect our daily life, economy, health care, etc.

No one's talking about where one of (if not the most) liberal Senator will lead us, how his policies will effect our daily life, economy, health care, etc.

Oh no... we want to dissect yet again a misbegotten war that the politicians fubar'ed beyond all recovery.

WTG!

Absolutely - emotion sells and issues are confusing and boring. Sadly, that's what works in consumer marketing and a candidate is no different, really, than a tube of hemorrhoid cream or a new BMW. At least in the old days they would give you some free whiskey for you vote, now it's all about generating enough hate and fear to drive your perspective voting base to the polls and hope more of yours show up than theirs.

Charon

[demaw1]

Toad and Charon.....30 year old war.


   I am going to tell all of you why this is being discussed now.

   1  My SON will most likely be involved,I do not want him to serve under a johnson clone. Kerry has already said within 6 months he would pull troops out.  You morons,no matter what, they will now fight for at least that long to see what will happen.

   He isnt even president yet and he has blood on his hands.General Giap commander vn. forces said....We were ready to surrender several times, and would have had it not been for the anti-war protest in America. He went on to name some groups and a few people...kerry was one of those people.

  I figure most of you for having some smarts,If you want proof look it up, but as informed as most of you seem to be on both sides you must have known this.

Those that are really liberal vets, this doesnt at least make you take a second look? You honestly think that was a good thing to tell the enemy? And you wonder why we talk about it..Some of us have or will have sons and daughters in harms way,while you cyber warriors will be sitting here as I am .

     I beg you dont give the military another johnson and mcnamera.....They are there give them who they want as cic.

[Toad]

Demaw,

While I'm sympathetic to some of that, the bottom line is that dragging up the VietNam war does no good.

It simply doesn't resonate as a major issue with this electorate. In other words, this election won't be decided on who did or did not go or not go to VietNam.

If go / no go was THE determining factor with this electorate, Clinton would not have won over Bush Sr and Dole, would he?

If go / no go was THE determining factor with this electorate, Bush Jr would not have won over Gore?

VietNam is a sideshow; it's the sleight of hand the magician is using to keep us from  seeing what he's really doing, who he really is.

In the Kerry camp, they gather vets and put Big John in a leather Navy flight jacket......... BECAUSE HIS HANDLERS don't want to talk about and certainly don't want you thinking about his 20+ years in the Senate with only a few bills that bear his name, and absentee record that would make any school kid blush and a liberal voting record that is MOST CERTAINLY in the top 10 most liberal Senator class.

In the Bush camp, they allow this media fixation on VietNam because HIS HANDLERS don't want to talk about and certainly don't want you thinking about a suck-egg economy, no Osama-in-jail pictures and a US death toll in Iraq approaching 1000.

Look, I'm a Viet-era vet. I think Bush probably did use his connections to land a good Guard slot.  So what; he served. In my class of 55 guys at UPT (1973), some of them Zoomies, there was ONE "Guard Guy". When we all found out about the GREAT deal he found for himself, the prevailing sentiment was that he was one smart dude. We didn't consider him a "coward" or any less of a man for "going Guard".  That's just stupid BS.  Most guys expressed the wish that they had known about the "Guard deal", because most guys didn't.

Kerry? He went, he served. Medals? Sometimes they're given out cheap; check Lyndon Johnson's Silver Star story sometime. But MOST of the time they're EARNED. There's enough guys saying Kerry earned his to give it a pass; let it go.

My brother-in-law earned the SS in VietNam. I asked him about it one time. His whole answer was about two sentences. Something like "When I did it, it seemed the only way out of the situation. When it was over, I thought it was the stupiedest thing I had ever done. I still think it was the stupidest thing I ever did." So was he a hero? He didn't think so; he thought he was lucky to be alive.

What all of us SHOULD be doing, confronted for the second straight time with two less than stellar choices for the highest office in the land, is to try and FORCE them to talk specifics. We need to know their plans for the terrorists, the economy, health care, etc. NOT the "spin doctored platitudes".. nope, get them to come out with simple declarative sentences that we can beat them over the head with later.

Myself, I'm SICK of getting offered this type of candidate by BOTH SIDES.

I'm voting Libertarian I think. I may do that the rest of my life. This procession of party puppets has got to stop.