HT, how about unperking the Spit14?

[_Schadenfreude_]

With eny rules in force I couldn't fly anything under a eny of 28 this eve - anyone want to buy a couple of thousand perk points?

[leitwolf]

Imho, unperking, or at least reducing it's cost considerably, is worth a try, everything that promotes variety is a good thing(tm).
And yes, the Griffon MkXIV is an entirely different beast in tactics and relative strengths both for the guy at the controls and every opponent, it's not just "a better MkIX"
If (unperked) spit14 usage proves to be unbalancing after a couple of tours, perk it again.

[xBarrelx]

if the perks were about percentage that flew in WWII, the f4u1c would switch with the 262. and the italian planes.....perks regulate game play and the planes that are flying. dont want to many uber planes ruining all the fun for everyone else.

[Kweassa]

So you're saying the Spit14 is 'uber'?

 ..

 When we already have an arena full of 'uber planes' of each countries - P-51Ds, La-7s, Fw190D-9s and Bf109G-10s... which, are all completely free?

[Urchin]

The Spit 14 would see some use if it were unperked.  Probably the F4U4 would too.  The Ta152 wouldn't, it is completely worthless perked, and it would be completely worthless unperked.  

I'd imagine the Spit 14 would end up around where the Ki-84 will end up, probably right around the Typhoon level of use.  Our MA is one of extremes, the only planes that will see "over usage" are the ones that are the "best" at something.  The Spit 9 is the best all around fighter (speaks wonders for German engineering that a 1942 Spitfire will kick the everloving **** out of a 1945 Ta152 100% of the time), the La7 is the best runner, the Niki is for people that would fly the Spit 9 but want more ammo, the Spit 5 for people that would fly the Spit 9 but want to be able to out turn the Spit 9.

The Spit 14 doesn't really have a niche in that kind of environment.  A spit 9 would kick the **** out of a spit 14 unless the spit 14 just bore n zooms (and even then I suspect the Spit 9 would equalize energy states eventually and win, although the Spit 14 has a much better chance than the 109G-10 does because of the Hizookas).  An La-7 can bore n zoom a Spit 14 with impunity, and even fight for a while until it becomes apparent that the Spit 14 pilot is better than they are, at which point they just level out and haul bellybutton while screaming for help.  Actually, a Spit 14 isn't going to survive an encounter with an La-7 in the MA.. if it looks like the Spit 14 is getting the upper hand, the La7 runs, then turns around and resumes chasing the spit 14 once the spit 14 turns around.  Eventually, the friends that the la7 has been calling the whole time will arrive, and the Spit 14 will die.

The F4U4 would probably see more use than the Spit 14, because it is almost as fast as the La7, so it can get away with a head start.

The Ta152, well, most everyone knows how worthless that plane is, I doubt it would break 500 kills a month even if it were unperked.

[Karnak]

Ta152 gets more kills than the Spit XIV right now, and that is with the Spit XIV accidently being taken in place of Spit IXs.

[simshell]

the TA152 would get alot of use from people flying the 190D9 and wanting some firepower the TA152 holds a vulchers dream weapon a 30mm in the nose that is easy to use with the 2 20mms

heck we get people flying 190A-8s why wont TA152s get used


and Urchin try flying it some time its not a worthless peace of crap you love to name it

[Urchin]

The 152 is slower than the D9 at every alt up to like 30k.  It accelerates slower than the D9 at every alt up to 30k, and it climbs worse than the D9 at every alt.  

I'm reasonably certain it turns worse as well, but once you empty out the wing tanks that might change, in AH1 it actually turned pretty well once you got the wing tanks and forward tank emptied out.  But it is the lack of speed, acceleration, and climb rate that kills it, not the turn rate.  

Yea Karnak, I noticed that when I went back to check the killstats for the 152 for the past few months.  I guess just the higher perk cost of the Spit 14 keeps it from being flown, it is a much better airplane.

[Kweassa]

The 152 is slower than the D9 at every alt up to like 30k. It accelerates slower than the D9 at every alt up to 30k, and it climbs worse than the D9 at every alt.

 I'm reasonably certain it turns worse as well, but once you empty out the wing tanks that might change, in AH1 it actually turned pretty well once you got the wing tanks and forward tank emptied out. But it is the lack of speed, acceleration, and climb rate that kills it, not the turn rate.

 Let's see... according to HTC charts and Kingcat's AH test data:

* The D-9 outruns the 152 upto 22k
* The D-9 outclimbs the 152 upto 21k
* The D-9 outrolls the 152 at every speed range

* The D-9 outaccelerates the 152 at every speed range(at deck)

 In basic maneuverability testing:
( Test conditions at 500ft, Stall limiter on(to minimize human error margin), 25% fuel...)

* The D-9 completes a one circle, coordinated turn at:

 22.4 seconds (MIL)
 20.8 seconds (WEP)

* The 152 completes a one circle, coordinated turn at:

 21.9 seconds (MIL)
 19.1 seconds (WEP)

 ....

 So more or less your assumptions are correct.

 I've been using a lot of 152s in all kinds of situations, regardless of perk loss, for the past tour, and I'd add that the only advantage the 152 holds is with power dives(albeit slightly), firepower, maneuverability, and E-retention during level flight.

[Urchin]

Yea, my assumptions are correct about 90% of the time, as much as most people hate to admit it.

[Karnak]

Urchin,

The problem is that the Spitfire Mk XIV, which I agree would smack a Ta152H-1 badly in AH, is no more cabable of surviving it's icon than the Ta152H-1 is.

The gangbang tags more than compensate for the increased performance of the perk planes, barring the Tempest, Me262, Me163 and Ar234.  Once the tags are factored in you have aircraft that are actually significantly weaker than a great many of the free aircraft.

[J_A_B]

Problem with the propeller perk planes isn't their perk tags, it's the presence of the ME-262.  Anything with a propeller just seems worthless compared to the jet, so why risk perks on that 152 or F4U-4 when that just means you'll need to wait that much longer for the jet?  

Solution:  get rid of the jets in the MA.  Suddenly the other perk planes will be worth using again.  Well maybe not the 152 since it's more of a "wow" type of plane than something which is actually viable in the MA.



I also think EVERY plane should have a unique icon, not only the perk ones.  Being able to hop in a 109F4 and win fights only because my opponents can't tell I'm not a G-10 is stupid.  Hiding in a Spit 14 while your opponents think you're a Spit 5 would be even more stupid.




J_A_B

[Karnak]

I have to disagree with you there J_A_B.  The Tempest and F4U-1C both see pretty heavy use.  The Tempest has the performance to overcome it's perk tag and the F4U-1C has a generic F4U icon.  It isn't the prop vs jet, it is the lack of performance to deal with the icon that singles them out.

[J_A_B]

We've had this discussion before and never came to any sort of agreement so I see no reason to repeat it again


Maybe AH would have been better off if there was no perk system and if certain units had simply never been added.


J_A_B

[Fruda]

The Ta-152 is bellybutton right now, because nobody wants to take the time to climb to 40k. The 152 was made for altitudes about 35,000 feet, and it's speed is rated at 470mph+ at 40,000 feet.

At that altitude, the 152 completely out-performs the D9 in every flight test I've done, except for rolling and turning. Well, longer wings mean greater lift, and greater lift means better performance at altitude at the cost of mobility.

I still love the Ta-152, and nobody's gonna stop me from flying at 40k.