ENY disablements

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Skeksis
I think you missed the point that a lot of people do not want to change sides.  Saying that Contition A in Country A is false because Condition A is not true in Country B seems way off base and smacks more of a justification than anything else.

Will I change countries to fly a plane I want?  Not a chance in hell.  

Will I fly other planes to stay with my squad mates?  Sure.  

Will I not change countries because of my friendships with my squadmates?  Bingo.

Is my squad going to survive this?  I dunno.  Most of them were plenty ticked off about this last night.

Skeksis

So, what you are seemingly saying is that your squad is generally unhappy at not being able to fly the low ENY fighters (La-7, P-51D, Spit9, Niki, etc.), correct?

So, what's wrong with the La-5, P-51B, SpitV and Hurricane IIC?

Also, has it dawned on you guys that the Bish, who had 190+ players last night, faced the same restrictions? Did you notice that the neither the Knits or Rooks had any restrictions on types whatsoever? This sword cuts both ways.

Wanna have some fun? Do a squad mission with 1/2 of the squad in the Hurricane IIC, with two 500 pound bombs. Have the other half fly 190A-8s, armed with a 500 kilo bomb. This combination is not only fun, but completely devastating. Best yet, they are never restricted by the ENY limits.

For more of the same type of fun, organize a raid consisting of F4Fs and SBDs. Don't laugh, the SBD can dogfight quite well, and the ironclad F4F can give a good account of itself against anybody in anything dumb enough to get slow. With both types, you save the 100 pounders for vulching or popping M16 and FPs.

My point is this: Get out of the kill-O-matic planes and fly something that presents a challenge. There's few things as fun as landing 6 kills in an SBD. Heck, I've landed 18 kills in Hurricane, and not a single vulch among them. If I can do it, so can you.

Granted, there are some guys who couldn't fight their way out of a nursing home restroom with a submachine gun. But most players can learn to be deadly in the higher ENY fighters. The problem is that most will never fly these planes enough to learn their strengths, or they're so afraid that they can't run away that they never even try them.

Once your squad realizes that you can have just as much, if not more fun in the early-war clunkers, their unhappiness will fade away.

My regards,

Widewing

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Widewing
So, what you are seemingly saying is that your squad is generally unhappy at not being able to fly the low ENY fighters (La-7, P-51D, Spit9, Niki, etc.), correct?

So, what's wrong with the La-5, P-51B, SpitV and Hurricane IIC?

Also, has it dawned on you guys that the Bish, who had 190+ players last night, faced the same restrictions? Did you notice that the neither the Knits or Rooks had any restrictions on types whatsoever? This sword cuts both ways.

Wanna have some fun? Do a squad mission with 1/2 of the squad in the Hurricane IIC, with two 500 pound bombs. Have the other half fly 190A-8s, armed with a 500 kilo bomb. This combination is not only fun, but completely devastating. Best yet, they are never restricted by the ENY limits.

For more of the same type of fun, organize a raid consisting of F4Fs and SBDs. Don't laugh, the SBD can dogfight quite well, and the ironclad F4F can give a good account of itself against anybody in anything dumb enough to get slow. With both types, you save the 100 pounders for vulching or popping M16 and FPs.

...

All true enough ... I personally wish I could get my gunnery skills back on par quicker so I could fly the Yak-9 and La-5 effectively, but that's another story.


But - as is my wont - let me once again play Devil's Advocate. Rather than have the side with a numerical edge get punished for what is just the routine ebb and flow of the game ....

What has been stopping the Bish/Knits from having their own Joint-Ops night?

What's been stopping the other coutries from sending up a flare when it's RJO night? That's what my squad used to do when we were competing for a title - when the guys we were going against were seen online, email was sent out and we scrambled to meet them head on ... this was the dark days before IM even.

What's to stop the other countries - even when outnumbered - from doing wild missions like F4F/SBD as you mentioned? If you're outnumbered anyway, why not have some fun instead of just letting yourself get vultched? Don't you think that if your country launched interesting missions like this - and executed them with some level of success - that people might get the notion it could be fun to fly with you guys?


And I'll give you one more "what if" ... What if rather that implement this balancer, HT decided he didn't need the headaches and that it shouldn't be necessary in the first place and simply posted on the BBS: "Stop whining about being outnumbered, you guys ARE the game ... now go figure it out."

You know, kind of "Ask not what your game designer can do for your country, ask what you can do for your country."

      -DoK

[Furious]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
...And I'll give you one more "what if" ... What if rather that implement this balancer, HT decided he didn't need the headaches and that it shouldn't be necessary in the first place and simply posted on the BBS: "Stop whining about being outnumbered, you guys ARE the game ... now go figure it out." ...

Is it your contention that the folks throwing tantrums on the BBS over the new system would have simply changed sides or flown a less capable aircraft or some made any other sort of effort to balance out the arena if HT had only asked nicely?

The people who were willing to help balance the arena were already doing so.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Furious
Is it your contention that the folks throwing tantrums on the BBS over the new system would have simply changed sides or flown a less capable aircraft or some made any other sort of effort to balance out the arena if HT had only asked nicely?

The people who were willing to help balance the arena were already doing so.

No ... it is my contention that the players make the game what it is.

There is a lot more going on in this little debate than it would first appear.

    -DoK

[Kev367th]

DokGonZo - There is a lot more going on in this little debate than it would first appear.

How right you are, I wonder who will be the one who finally says what a lot of us are starting to suspect?
I have the gut feeling that HT has already figured it out.

[Furious]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
No ... it is my contention that the players make the game what it is....

And if the players are making it crappy, HT should ___________?

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Furious
And if the players are making it crappy, HT should ___________?

You're looking at this from the wrong direction.

[Orig]

How about turning the BBS off for a month (leaving on only squadron, event, news, and bug report forums) and seeing what happens in the arena?  Probably a bunch more killing and less griping.  Got a problem with someone?  Hunt them down in the arena and give it a go.  Settle arguments the good old fashioned way, with guns and dueling, either one on one or squad vs. squad.

Shaddup and fly?  Works for the silent majority I think.

One more thing - instead of disabling popular but largely ineffective planes like the P-51D (typical K/D well under 1.0 unlike LA-7), how about just adding a mild perk cost to normally free planes?  That way there is a cost associated with those planes, but people who really really really want to fly them with their buddies don't have to organize a mass defection in order to get both their plane and wingmen of choice.  Newbies who don't have any perkies to spend might also not feel as much loyalty as those who are well established in the game, so you'd still get some people switching sides in addition to those who'd fly something else that isn't perked.

Or not, whatever.  If it's fun, fly.  If it isn't, do something else and come back when it's fun again.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Orig
popular but largely ineffective planes like the P-51D (typical K/D well under 1.0 unlike LA-7

If the La-7 could carry a couple 1000lb bombs and six rockets it'd have a K/D ratio under 1.0 too.  It is the use it gets as a jabo and/or kamikaze aircraft that keeps the P-51D from having a good K/D ratio.

[Furious]

Group therapy for the AH player base is not gonna happen.  Airhead simply does not have the time to take us all for a walk on the beach.  We are not going to get together for a nice hand hold and reaffirm our love for one another.

If its gonna get better, we need HTC to put in place the means and methods for the improvement.

Now that could mean, really pushing a trainer corp, chase the fox type of MA events or limiting the avialabilty of certain planes when numbers become unbalanced.

[Shane]

Originally posted by Kev367th
How right you are, I wonder who will be the one who finally says what a lot of us are starting to suspect?

I have the gut feeling that HT has already figured it out.

I say it all the time, albeit on ch 200.

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by Zanth
In the short term what you imagine might well happen, just as some left when we went to the new graphics system. What you have failed to consider however is the big picture - how new players are/were integrated which is the future and the real money.

I suspect that a number of thesep layers left because the system requirements went up.  I know of a few people that could not get the hang of the changes and left for that reason.

Just like the new graphics, some thigns have to be done for the long haul.  If there are some casualties along the way, that is sad, but it had to be done.

This strikes me as an odd view on things especially since other posters here are trying to find other ways to implement things that are not so...well for lack of a better term, antisocial.  Mayhap the best way to distill your sentiment is 'Adapt or die' and honestly I do not think that a game that relies on the financial support of playre can really view that as a viable long-term strategy.

Skeksis

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by Kev367th
Starting to think we have some real self centered people in the community. i.e. The I want the numbers advantage,

Dont' care about a numbers advantage myself.  I just want to fly and score a kill or two and get back so I don't let my squad down.

I want the top rides,

Don't care about that either, just want to fly the aircraft that I have most familiarity with

 

I want to fly in a hoard,

A squad of 30 people is a horde????

I want to gangbang other people,

Have no idea what this is in reference to.

I am enjoying myself doesn't matter if anyone else is.

One of my squadies said it best.  When a side is winning then the side that is losing *should* be at a disadvantage.  This is a simulation of a war and in war no one stops to level out the playing field for the losing side.

Skeksis

[Alpo]

Originally posted by Skeksis

 

A squad of 30 people is a horde????

 
 

In a word... yes.  Although some hordes can be fun fights, for instance just yesterday Kev, Jackal and friends (guessing 20+) brought Hurricanes raining down on A25.  Got two of them before I ran out of E in that mess  Radio chatter was great.

Themed raids are always a hoot... (ie.  Stukas to HQ on the deck)

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by Widewing
So, what you are seemingly saying is that your squad is generally unhappy at not being able to fly the low ENY fighters (La-7, P-51D, Spit9, Niki, etc.), correct?

My squad has as it's doctrine that we fly the 17 and the 51D.  Now if this change means that we can fly something else and *do* something else then I am all for it.  In fact if this change had been implemented because HiTech wanted to see other planes being used and people doing something different then I doubt too many people would have said any thing at all.

So, what's wrong with the La-5, P-51B, SpitV and Hurricane IIC?

Um..for me a lot because I really only know how to fly teh 51D and after almost 3 years of this I still suck and expect to suck even worse now that I am trying to jump from plane to plane.  

Also, has it dawned on you guys that the Bish, who had 190+ players last night, faced the same restrictions? Did you notice that the neither the Knits or Rooks had any restrictions on types whatsoever? This sword cuts both ways.

Oh yes, I had a ton of fun last night when I took to the skies in the 51B and when trying to get to a squadie (we are Bish BTW) who was under attack found he was being attacked by a 190 and F6F.  I found at that moment feeling that the playing field was *really* level for us...

Wanna have some fun? Do a squad mission with 1/2 of the squad in the Hurricane IIC, with two 500 pound bombs. Have the other half fly 190A-8s, armed with a 500 kilo bomb. This combination is not only fun, but completely devastating. Best yet, they are never restricted by the ENY limits.

I am all in favor of having fun and maybe if I were better at this I would have more fun.  It sucks to be every on else's kill marker and get a kill or two a month, now things are going to get even harder for a portion of the game population because of the plane change.  Like I said, I really think this was brought in to play with the wrong rational.

For more of the same type of fun, organize a raid consisting of F4Fs and SBDs. Don't laugh, the SBD can dogfight quite well, and the ironclad F4F can give a good account of itself against anybody in anything dumb enough to get slow. With both types, you save the 100 pounders for vulching or popping M16 and FPs.

I am all in favor of flying B26s w cover but those decision are made by my CO.  If you are about to say that it is time to move to a different squad don't, a lot of these guys have become friends and I don't want to bail on them.

My point is this: Get out of the kill-O-matic planes and fly something that presents a challenge. There's few things as fun as landing 6 kills in an SBD. Heck, I've landed 18 kills in Hurricane, and not a single vulch among them. If I can do it, so can you.

With all due respect, pipe down.    I generally consider a mission successful if I can accompany the bombers to the target and back.  Once I engage my only function is to delay the enemy long enough for the bombers to get out because I am as good as dead.

Granted, there are some guys who couldn't fight their way out of a nursing home restroom with a submachine gun.

Present and accounted for, sir.

But most players can learn to be deadly in the higher ENY fighters. The problem is that most will never fly these planes enough to learn their strengths, or they're so afraid that they can't run away that they never even try them.

Okay, I am really tired of this kind of thinking.  Too many pilots feel that because they can do it, everyone can do it and it just isn't so.  Some of us need training (maybe too much of it) and that is one thing that seems isshort supply.

Once your squad realizes that you can have just as much, if not more fun in the early-war clunkers, their unhappiness will fade away.

FWIW I had more fun in the 51B and the P47 C (I think) last night than in months with the 51D but I am in the minority in my squad.  

Skeksis