The Nitty Gritty

[Zanth]

I have always wondered why they ever would have started that in the first place.  Were people not fighting each other or something?

[Wotan]

IMO, it can be traced back to the landgrab concept of gameplay. For too many, this has become the main focus of the game. Heck, for some, it is the ONLY focus of the game.

I agree 100%. I don't want to beat this horse again but in time past each side was a mix of player types. My squad's in AH were always "fighter / fur ball" types. We didn’t care about "winning a reset". We had no "loyalty" out side of a few like minded friends. However, we would enjoy shooting them down and getting shot down by them as much as fighting with them. It aided to our "camaraderie".

Things in the AH main have changed from what it once was. I know HT has rejected that but the main at least how I see it is nothing more then a race to reset.

How do you accomplish a reset? Large missions that are attractive to a lot of players. This is where they find their idea of "team work". We have had many a player come through our squad who were a little disappointed about our free hunt approach. We went where we could find a fight irregardless of where the "war was being won."

The current type of game play rewards the larger group and gives them a sense of mission and helps them feel as if they are actually working together toward something.  What I don't know, it all starts over 4 min after a reset.

As Widewing said in another thread there may be an underlying problem that some folks are just too attached the game and are mixing the game's virtual world with reality. You read some of the most insane stuff "I will not betray my country". I don't if these folks are serious but they may need help.


 

Now, instead of becoming bored with putting up numbers that your opponents can not compete with, people revel in it. I view what has been going on as the strategic equivolent of vulching/spawn camping. While I can do both in support of a goal (ie..to capture or defend a field), I find that it loses its charm fairly quickly. It seems that these days, more and more people are willing to make their 'virtual living' this way.

[/b]

I agree. These same people would argue "What is the point behind furballing, up kill some, die some, repeat". They claim that’s equally boring. I don’t agree because I think that the fur ball is ever changing. You find players of different skill types and tactics mixing it up. Squads flying together and wing men covering each other. Lone wolves perched on the edges etc… Yet these same folks will up and auger while jaboing a town and repeat it over and over. I can’t see how this doesn’t get boring. This goes back to "well at least I am helping my side win".

The solution may be to alter the game so that it is less about conquest and more about combat.

I agree again. I said in another thread that it appears that HT is fixing things on the edges and not dealing with the what I perceive as the heart of the matter. I could be wrong and self absorbed in my own idea of fun but wth here I go anyway.

IMHO as game play has developed in AH it has become more of a land grab then air combat. Capturing fields and the like have also been a part of the game but to me these provided something to fight over. Rather then just something to take as quickly as possible.

Along with the fuel pork fix and the current side balancing fix these are just minors issues compared to the how the game is actually played. Again this is my perception.

Maybe I am completely wrong but I will pretend my opinion matters for a moment and suggest that maybe a review of what triggers a reset is in order. Or in shifting the reset trigger away from just field capture? I am not going to rehash the old suggestions but is there any consideration of changing game play?

No doubt there will be those resistant to change and will cry from every mountain top about how HT is "killing them". It maybe more work then its worth.

[shoppe]

I don't pretend to understand the dynamics or work involved, but wouldn't it be possible to have an arena for the "reset" crowd and one for the "furball" crowd?

Imho I think the "reset" arena would be more populated, as a lot of people enjoy having an outcome, ie; reset, a perceived goal to attain, but then the "furballers" would have an area where the fight is the only thing.

Shop

[SlapShot]

This is the way I see it from my experiences in the last 2+ years ...

Land Grab - win the reset, has been part of this game since I joined and was there before I joined and during this time period, there was never an imbalance in the arena as we see today, except for when the Rooks were in the bucket. With that, I don't believe that the "Land Grab" is the sole variable that has thrown things out of wack.

I still believe that its a comraderie thing ...

When I started (as a Knight), I remember there were some large forces in the arena.

Arabian Knights (Bish), MAW (Knights) and USMC (Knights). I don't ever remember a single squad on the Rooks that had the influence that these squads had. I could be wrong and don't mean to slight any long time Rooks squads as well as any other long time squads in the Bish and Knights. This is just what I remember.

I seemed that the AKs were the driving force for the Bish. Whereever the AKs went, so did the Bish. Same for the MAW and USMC. Whereever the MAW/USMC went, so went the Knights. AKs were the premier base takers for the Bish and the MAW/USMC were the premier base takers for the Knights.

I remember many a clash between the MAW and AKs. Word would get out on country channel that the AKs were attacking field X and MAW would run there to spoil it. I know when the MAW went for a base, the AKs would show up to spoil the party. Back then, bringing home AK scalps was the cats meow.

Now, what happened to these squads and their influence.

I believe that the AKs had a falling out within their ranks. What ever happened to AKNimtz ? ... along with the disgusting beating that they took and still take for creating AKDesert. Between the 2 of those events, it appears that the AKs have kinda faded into the background and since then, the Bish really haven't had the mojo.

The MAW ... well I know for a fact that some of the key people on that squad had real life things to deal with and some got burned out. Since then, the MAW has also drifted into the background and doesn't quite carry the influence that they once had in Knightdom.

The USMC ... don't really know the story there, but USGrim does not seem to play as much as he use to, and I believe that he is/was the driving force for the USMC as 40DogMAW is for the MAW, and he doesn't play as much as he use to either. Don't really know who the driving force for the AKs was, but I will take a stab at it ... AKNimitz ... I don't believe that he plays anymore.

I can speak for the Knights ... when 40Dog or Grim started directing the force/attack, people would jump on board immediately and things would happen. Their overall community respect for these guys was all that was needed to rally the troops.

I once witnessed a night where the Knights were down to 3 bases, on the verge of a reset. Knights couldn't find their butts with both hands. 40Dog logged on and started to direct counter-attacks. Well, in a matter of 3 hours, not only did the Knights fend off the reset, they actually reset the whole arena. It was amazing. Only other person that I saw accomplish this type of turnaround was Grim.

Knights did have something like the RJO ... The MAW, USMC, and FreeBirds (another strong squad) started running ops together and when that happened, it was very hard to stop the Knights.

Then came the RJO ... Rooks were constantly getting a beating and probably the worst beating in the history of AH. They decided to do something about it, and with hard work and cooperation, they overcame and have become the dominate country to date.

The task of creating this RJO and the results is why I believe that the Rooks have the best comraderie in the game. They worked together, and dug themselfs out of a very deep hole. That is what creates very strong bonds between people ... working for a common goal and succeeding.

When the RJO came into play, the driving forces in the Bish and Knights were slowly disappearing into the background and there is not, I believe, at this point, any real driving forces steering the Bish and the Knights.

Why do people want to fly for the Rooks ... cause for the most part, they have fun TOGETHER.

Sorry for being longwinded.

[Icer]

Originally posted by SlapShot
snip
Why do people want to fly for the Rooks ... cause for the most part, they have fun TOGETHER.

Sorry for being longwinded.

Agree. About you being longwinded I mean.....

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
IMO, it can be traced back to the landgrab concept of gameplay. For too many, this has become the main focus of the game. Heck, for some, it is the ONLY focus of the game. Now, instead of becoming bored with putting up numbers that your opponents can not compete with, people revel in it. I view what has been going on as the strategic equivolent of vulching/spawn camping. While I can do both in support of a goal (ie..to capture or defend a field), I find that it loses its charm fairly quickly. It seems that these days, more and more people are willing to make their 'virtual living' this way.

The solution may be to alter the game so that it is less about conquest and more about combat.

   So, in essence you are saying that the majority of players are playing for the capture aspect and that`s what they find enjoyable? Then you are saying to take away what the majority enjoys? Yea, that makes sense. lol

[Zanth]

Originally posted by SlapShot

When the RJO came into play, the driving forces in the Bish and Knights were slowly disappearing into the background and there is not, I believe, at this point, any real driving forces steering the Bish and the Knights.

Why do people want to fly for the Rooks ... cause for the most part, they have fun TOGETHER.

Sorry for being longwinded.

And your squad moving to rook helped how?  This is why Hitech had to do something.  When not even seeming smart and reasonable people like you fellows can be counted on to do "the right thing", there is no alternative.

[Shane]

no, he's saying, or rather asking, which gives you a better sense of accomplishment and provides more fun all around - taking 2 bases hard fought over, using all the tactics and strategies available, or taking 10 bases relatively unopposed?

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Zanth
And your squad moving to rook helped how?  This is why Hitech had to do something.  When not even seeming smart and reasonable people like you fellows can be counted on to do "the right thing", there is no alternative.

I say it again Zanth ... 13th participation had diminished at that time. We were lucky to have 2-3 guys flying on any night, and most nights I flew by myslef, so the switch really had no bearing on the numbers ... and still wouldn't in the larger scheme of things.

Squads like the MAW that have close to 80 members could cause the type of problems that you are alluding to.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Shane
no, he's saying, or rather asking, which gives you a better sense of accomplishment and provides more fun all around - taking 2 bases hard fought over, using all the tactics and strategies available, or taking 10 bases relatively unopposed?

Oh Oh Oh ... I know ... I know ... pick me ... pick me !!!

P.S. ... Don't ever give my beer away !!!

[hitech]

NB: I agree that the system could change peoples playing style.

But why would it be different from 1 country to the next, or why would it create a country imbalance?

[muckmaw]

Maybe people like playing for the rooks because they organzie that RJO thing every sunday and players are looking for a more structered enviornment.

[Wotan]

Originally posted by hitech
NB: I agree that the system could change peoples playing style.

But why would it be different from 1 country to the next, or why would it create a country imbalance?

Because the main issue against the number imbalance is that under the current game play the side getting hit by the larger cant even up to have fun. He will be ganged and or vulched shortly after.

If the focus of game play is away from field capture then the complaint would be "we are out numbered so we always loose" rather then "we are outnumbered and I cant even take off to enjoy an hour or so of fighting. I might as well log". IMHO that's huge difference.

The number imbalance only becomes critical when it’s used as a tool to deny the other the ability to fight. This may make sense in a real war but AH is a game. Winning the game by making it so unfun for the other side is really no victory.

Maybe a core of 5 - 10 uncapturable fields, or making strat a trigger for reset rather then rolling one base after another. There have been a number of suggestions in this direction over the years.

[Shane]

Originally posted by muckmaw
Maybe people like playing for the rooks because they organzie that RJO thing every sunday and players are looking for a more structered enviornment.

uhhh  the RJO thingy isn't every sunday, or even on sundays.

what's "structured" about a horde? i don't see organizational tactics such as base cap, interdiction (air superiority for inbounds from other bases), or even ususally well defended goons.

just because a large group of people agree to "fly to such and such base" doesn't make it structured.

[Max]

Originally posted by NoBaddy
IMO, it can be traced back to the landgrab concept of gameplay. For too many, this has become the main focus of the game. Heck, for some, it is the ONLY focus of the game. Now, instead of becoming bored with putting up numbers that your opponents can not compete with, people revel in it. I view what has been going on as the strategic equivolent of vulching/spawn camping. While I can do both in support of a goal (ie..to capture or defend a field), I find that it loses its charm fairly quickly. It seems that these days, more and more people are willing to make their 'virtual living' this way.

The solution may be to alter the game so that it is less about conquest and more about combat.

This has probably be mentioned before but I'll toss it out anyway.
IMHO the best way to dissuade the land grab would be:
1. Give each country an equal number of uncapturable bases...perhaps 25% of the total Airfield, VH and ports.
2. Get rid of the points for reset reward.
3. Reset the map once a week and only once a week.

The combination would de-emphasize land grab/base capture/lemming raids etc. and would cant more emphasis on air/ground/naval combat. What's the downside? None that I can think of.

DmdMax